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EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough 

 

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 Post subject: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Age: 24

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Joined: 1st Mar 2012

Ride: '98 EL Futura

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Hi,

I've got a '98 EL Futura, which has been pretty inconsistent in the way it starts, and idles. A couple of times, it has almost stalled when almost stopped at traffic lights (in Drive)

When I start the car, it does one of three things, either it turns over and starts immediately (first or second turn), it will turn over four or five times, sort of fire, but to get it going I need to hold the key on for a further 1 or 2 seconds to give it a helping hand (otherwise it just stalls), or it will turn over for 10-15 seconds, before finally starting roughly.

The one thing that is consistent, is that every time I start it in the morning, be it a 42 degree morning or a 2 degree morning, when I accelerate off down my street (not absolutely gunning it) it will rev to about 1250rpm, and then hit a dead spot, run very roughly for ~3 seconds like its going to stall, and then come right back to life and run like a trooper for the rest of the day.

The car has done around 369,000km's, and never done a head gasket, however, this, I believe, is not the problem, as the car runs fine ~95% of the time. It's never had any electrical work done, except for the fuel pump being replaced twice a couple of years ago, and the Fairmont/Ghia interior lights installed (by me) as a start to my interior conversion (to Cappa 'Mont Ghia)

The car has had the starting problem since I got it (from my Uncle) last year, and, afaik, it did this before-hand as well, and was simply never dealt with.

Any suggestions anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated! :D
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 30

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Joined: 22nd May 2006

Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Exactly the same basic set of issues with my el (hybrid) still no idea what it is. When it doesn't start, I give it a shot of aerostart & it usually comes good. Would love to know if you find a fix

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Age: 24

Posts: 7

Joined: 1st Mar 2012

Ride: '98 EL Futura

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Mines a hybrid as well. If I find a solution, I'll let you know
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:06 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 26

Posts: 789

Joined: 9th Dec 2011

Ride: S1 eb 5speed

Location: Coffs Harbour
NSW, Australia

My car dosnt have the start issue but does have the hesitation around 2200rpm, I have no idea what it is. If the engine has full time to warm up it won't do it. Might be a fuel/ air combustion temp issue simply Cos it's cold.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:09 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 26

Posts: 789

Joined: 9th Dec 2011

Ride: S1 eb 5speed

Location: Coffs Harbour
NSW, Australia

OP. Have you replaced the fuel filter? If the pumps dies twice and the filter hasn't been changed I could imagine alOt of crud in it.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:39 am 
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Age: 24

Posts: 7

Joined: 1st Mar 2012

Ride: '98 EL Futura

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

It was replaced at the same time as both fuel pumps AFAIK. The second fuel pump only died because it was a crappy one, only lasted about 3 weeks. So the filter has been replaced twice in the last 12-18 months. I could be due for another change, however.

I'll change it and post results.

Thanks,

Shaun

Edit: When I put the car from 'D' into '1' and give it the gonads, it has no trouble kicking from idle up to 4 - 4.5k rpm, and taking off like a bullet. I don't do this often (in fact I've only done it once, when the car almost stalled at lights, to see if it would fix it) but if the fuel filter was full of crap, would it still do this OK?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:38 am 
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Age: 24

Posts: 7

Joined: 1st Mar 2012

Ride: '98 EL Futura

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Replaced fuel filter. No difference :(

Any more suggestions?

Shaun
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:41 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 24

Posts: 108

Joined: 24th Jan 2012

Ride: ford falcon EL

Location: umina beach
NSW, Australia

map sensor ,o2 sensor,plugs,leads,coil pack injectors and fuel filter try them, i dunno much about the 4 litre,

have you tried spark plug and leads?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:39 am 
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Age: 24

Posts: 7

Joined: 1st Mar 2012

Ride: '98 EL Futura

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Ill check into all of that, except, I don't think the EL has a coil pack like the EF

If anyone could help me with the location of the "MAP Sensor" and "O2 Sensor", that would be awesome.

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

Black box with a hose & cable screwed to the passenger firewall behind the manifold

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Age: 26

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Ride: ba fairlane ghia

Location: loftus
NSW, Australia

o2 sensor is in the exaust pluged in the drivers side of the engine bay
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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:08 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Location: Australia
SA, Australia

Hi guys, I thought I would just put a bit of input on this as I had a similar problem with my xg ute (e series engine). After I did the BBM conversion on the car, when i started it in the morning, it idled fine but when it was under load for the first time like when i accelerated as i drive down my street at around 1500-2000 it would hesitate lack power and act like it had no fuel or too much fuel and stutter. Once it was warm, it had no probs at all.

I tried everything to fix it,
renew inlet manifold gasket
renew throttle body gasket
check all vac lines
renewed fuel filter (pump was already new)
renew tps
tried another map sensor
spent ages checking all vac lines and engine bay for leaks
renewed injectors TWICE and their o rings
new dizzy cap, rotor and leads.
Renewed 02 sensor twice
Checked my resistor trick on my el auto ecu
Overpaid on an EL manual ECU and tried that still no change

Guess what, it turned out to be the ECU cold start fuel maps.
I plugged in my old XG ecu and went away! Cold start and accelerate down the street with no hesitation. Left it overnight, plugged in the EL ecu drove down the street again and it was back!!!!

I got a j3 in there and got it tuned however he didnt change the cold start fuel maps to the same as what the XG uses but I gotta get my car retuned soon anyways and that should fix it.

I think I remember reading from someone who posted in one of my threads that the fuel maps are different.

Maybe your car just needs to have the cold start fuel maps tweaked. Failing that, feel free to try all the stuff I did and hopefully one of those things will correct the problem for it.

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

So, you had 2 ecus with buggered cold start?

 

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No?

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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:12 am 
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nah i dont believe the ecu's where buggered as such. I felt more that my engine required a different fuel map than what was on the el ecu's due to my mods. The eb-ed fuel maps are richer for cold start and my engine must have needed it. I have no idea why as all the other members on here put el ecu's on their eb-ed engine when doing a bbm mod or el /au engine swap and they all run fine. Its just another avenue that you can pursue rather than give up. I wish someone suggested this to me as I was 100% sure that it wasn't anything to do with the fuel maps and thats why i spent all the money on the other parts listed above.

So yeah maybe try another ECU or even get a j3 and tune? explain what is happening on cold start and they hopefully might be able to rectify it for ya. That is of course if all the other parts check out okay. I would be checking injectors though and fuel filter and fuel pressure first along with the TPS. If it was me :D I got a set of AU injectors on my XG and they work really well. It think they were around 100 bucks or something to buy. TPS u can check with a multimeter.

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL Futura - Starts & Idles rough
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:48 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 26

Posts: 789

Joined: 9th Dec 2011

Ride: S1 eb 5speed

Location: Coffs Harbour
NSW, Australia

Well that sounds convincing. Seeing my cars is a eb1 with a el ecu and j3
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