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el into eb conversion (WE HAVE IGNITION) 

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:02 pm 
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hi there i was reading your post about el into eb. To put the el engine into the eb you must use the ecu, wire lume, fuel pump etc from el to eb.
I have already researched this as i was going to do this to my car and you also need to use the electric thermo fans. It would not be the timing as the engine should have a distribuless ignition unless you are using the distributer from the eb into it. Email me if you need any help.

For example you can't use a ea/eb cfi 4 speed computer into eb series two that has a 4 litre multi point fuel injection. It will start and run but it will be like it is flooding by popping and banging and carrying on. It will also be like you are stuck in fourth when you are first taking off.

Please if you have any questions just ask i have plenty of people that can help with information.

Mat
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:26 pm 
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champ wrote:
hi there i was reading your post about el into eb. To put the el engine into the eb you must use the ecu, wire lume, fuel pump etc from el to eb.
I have already researched this as i was going to do this to my car and you also need to use the electric thermo fans. It would not be the timing as the engine should have a distribuless ignition unless you are using the distributer from the eb into it. Email me if you need any help.

For example you can't use a ea/eb cfi 4 speed computer into eb series two that has a 4 litre multi point fuel injection. It will start and run but it will be like it is flooding by popping and banging and carrying on. It will also be like you are stuck in fourth when you are first taking off.

Please if you have any questions just ask i have plenty of people that can help with information.

Mat


Mat,

I think you might need to do a tad more research about putting an EL motor into an EB.

The pumps are the same. You dont need thermo fans. You don't need the looms - altough 2 more wires have to be run. And EL's run dizzys, not coil pack.

Hazza,

Your ignition timing is out. Get a timing light onto it. Just slotting the dizzy in by feel and hoping for the best with the marks on the dizzy base cap wont get the timing right. I would guess the dizzy is one tooth out, or on the right tooth, but really retarded.
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Ride: EB Series II

Location: Launceston
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arm79 wrote:
champ wrote:
hi there i was reading your post about el into eb. To put the el engine into the eb you must use the ecu, wire lume, fuel pump etc from el to eb.
I have already researched this as i was going to do this to my car and you also need to use the electric thermo fans. It would not be the timing as the engine should have a distribuless ignition unless you are using the distributer from the eb into it. Email me if you need any help.

For example you can't use a ea/eb cfi 4 speed computer into eb series two that has a 4 litre multi point fuel injection. It will start and run but it will be like it is flooding by popping and banging and carrying on. It will also be like you are stuck in fourth when you are first taking off.

Please if you have any questions just ask i have plenty of people that can help with information.

Mat


Mat,

I think you might need to do a tad more research about putting an EL motor into an EB.

The pumps are the same. You dont need thermo fans. You don't need the looms - altough 2 more wires have to be run. And EL's run dizzys, not coil pack.

Hazza,

Your ignition timing is out. Get a timing light onto it. Just slotting the dizzy in by feel and hoping for the best with the marks on the dizzy base cap wont get the timing right. I would guess the dizzy is one tooth out, or on the right tooth, but really retarded.


No Offence Mate but you have a new car???Yes???
I was only trying to help. where did you get your info from??? i need to know so i can update my research
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:51 pm 
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champ wrote:
arm79 wrote:
champ wrote:
hi there i was reading your post about el into eb. To put the el engine into the eb you must use the ecu, wire lume, fuel pump etc from el to eb.
I have already researched this as i was going to do this to my car and you also need to use the electric thermo fans. It would not be the timing as the engine should have a distribuless ignition unless you are using the distributer from the eb into it. Email me if you need any help.

For example you can't use a ea/eb cfi 4 speed computer into eb series two that has a 4 litre multi point fuel injection. It will start and run but it will be like it is flooding by popping and banging and carrying on. It will also be like you are stuck in fourth when you are first taking off.

Please if you have any questions just ask i have plenty of people that can help with information.

Mat


Mat,

I think you might need to do a tad more research about putting an EL motor into an EB.

The pumps are the same. You dont need thermo fans. You don't need the looms - altough 2 more wires have to be run. And EL's run dizzys, not coil pack.

Hazza,

Your ignition timing is out. Get a timing light onto it. Just slotting the dizzy in by feel and hoping for the best with the marks on the dizzy base cap wont get the timing right. I would guess the dizzy is one tooth out, or on the right tooth, but really retarded.


No Offence Mate but you have a new car???Yes???
I was only trying to help. where did you get your info from??? i need to know so i can update my research


No.. I have an EL Ghia, far from new.

I've done 2 EL into EB conversions. But didn't really require any info off here as its all logical and straight forward.

As for the rest of the info, there is tons on FM to answer any question. Like why you cant put a CFI ecu into an EB2. Because the dizzys are different - this causes the fuling problems - and CFI cars have a seperate trans ECU that wouldnt exist in your EB2.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:14 am 
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Location: Launceston
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Question...Why don't you need the thermo fans/??

I already know that.

Look i have an eb series two and my fiancee has an ea 30th ann. both cars run well. and you know what contrary to beleif the ea seems to be going a hell of a lot better than the ea. now i know for a fact that those two extra wires are important.

You really do need to change the wiring lume. because you can't just wire the wires in you need the plug but when all said and done you can't just change the plugs over either.

Whether you have done two or not why is it you don't have the two eb's with the el engine?

I really hate it when you try to help someone and you just get beaten down.

Go to ford and check...not the website...the actual workshops.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:25 am 
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Location: Launceston
TAS, Australia

I went to do up an eb series one with cfi 4speed.went to my local jackson ford dealership asked a certified mechanic what alterations had to be done to fit my eb ser 2, 4 litre mpfi engine into the series one.

Answer was;

in with changing the engine i had to change the fuel pump front wiring loom and ecu computer. So i then decided to stick with the ser2, with the 4 litre mpfi engine.

Is this wrong? Did they go to school for nothing???

I think next time you want to give advice don't beat beat someone else down.

This is champs fiance...yes i am a girl that knows what she is talking about.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:31 am 
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Now sweety.


The one with the problem with the car. The best thing for you to do is what i did.

Go to your local ford dealership. It costs nothing to ask the for advice.

i do appologise for all of this my fiance got a bit upset trying to explain something. some of what he said was correct but.... it is better to hear it from the horses mouth.

Let me know how you go.

I can be contacted on champs email

this is Mary by the way.

now i am going back to bed.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:41 am 
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arm79 wrote:
champ wrote:
hi there i was reading your post about el into eb. To put the el engine into the eb you must use the ecu, wire lume, fuel pump etc from el to eb.
I have already researched this as i was going to do this to my car and you also need to use the electric thermo fans. It would not be the timing as the engine should have a distribuless ignition unless you are using the distributer from the eb into it. Email me if you need any help.

For example you can't use a ea/eb cfi 4 speed computer into eb series two that has a 4 litre multi point fuel injection. It will start and run but it will be like it is flooding by popping and banging and carrying on. It will also be like you are stuck in fourth when you are first taking off.

Please if you have any questions just ask i have plenty of people that can help with information.

Mat


Mat,

I think you might need to do a tad more research about putting an EL motor into an EB.

The pumps are the same. You dont need thermo fans. You don't need the looms - altough 2 more wires have to be run. And EL's run dizzys, not coil pack.

Hazza,

Your ignition timing is out. Get a timing light onto it. Just slotting the dizzy in by feel and hoping for the best with the marks on the dizzy base cap wont get the timing right. I would guess the dizzy is one tooth out, or on the right tooth, but really retarded.


Yeah ARM79 your on the money i reckon, as i said before.

I forgot to mention at first after the mpi dizzy went in the car it wouldn't even start, then i turned the dizzy anitclockwise as far as i could to advance it. It would just start and run but at wide open throttle it was on about 1500rpm f@rt and popping bad.

Then stuck the timing light on her and found retarded. Put on next tooth of dizzy and it started fine, adjusted to correct timing and it was done.

It had me stumped for an hour because i stuck my finger in spark plug 1 and rotated the engine by hand to feel for the compression stroke on TDC No1. Got that done and the timing marks all lined up, dizzy lined up and i thought what the hell was going on. Anyway it was just out by a tooth on the dizzy.

cheers...

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:28 am 
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champ wrote:
I think next time you want to give advice don't beat beat someone else down.

i don't think you'll find that arm79 was beating you down, he was just correcting your advice. i think you'll find that Adrian is quite knowledgeable with falcons

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:17 am 
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Champ, your essentially talking about CFI to mpefi conversions while everyone else is talking about mpefi EB to EL conversion. Very different situations. I think you need to relax, you were not beaten down, just corrected in the context of the thread. Also ford is NOT the place to go to get advice on these mods because although they understand the cars very well they dont do these sorts of modifications. They service, diagnose and repair, not modify and convert. One of the best places to get conversion information believe it or not is from a good wrecking yard. Those guys actually spend a lot of time swapping engines and selling parts to people who do these modifications and quickly learn just what is needed. Or even talk to people on the forums (like arm) who have done it and take the time to tell the rest of us how to do it as well :wink:

oh, and the problem with this car definitely sounds like timing problems to me as well.

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:38 am 
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As Mitch said, I wasn't beating you down... I was correcting some bad information.

You can quite easily put the multi v-belt and clutch fan onto an EL engine. Hence no need for thermo fans.

You can quite easily add the extra wires into the loom for the thermo fans and knock sensor. Just run them seperate, put the right plug on one end and add pins to the ECU plug. Voila, you have an EL wiring loom. I do think ebturb would agree with me, as thats how we did his, and it runs more than fine.

However, what I didn't know if that yours is originally CFI - in which case I apologise for assuming. So, yes, its a s**t of work to convert. And yes, the fuel pumps are different.

Now Mary, I know you hate it when you try to offer information and get beaten down. What I hate is when people jump in offering incorrect information on the supposed word of someone from say Ford - eg the comment of a distributorless ignition. Until you have gotten your hands dirty and seen how it all works, then you don't have a 100% idea.

Ford would be the last company I'd goto for information. Unless the dealers are different in Tassie, here they wouldnt know the boot from the bonnet and can be rarely relied upon to offer and decent advice, knowledge or general workmanship. 99% of them are apprentices -cheap labour that yet to have much of an idea on how to fix a car, let alone a Ford. I have dealt with them when my car was under warranty, so I have prior experience with them.

They might tell you what needs to be done, but most likely wont have an idea or the intelligence how to do it... That were FM comes in, as a few people have done it. Basically done what Ford said couldn't be done, in 1/4 of the time Ford said it would take.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:55 am 
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ok well i missed out on some nice convos befor .

neway on topic.

just had my mate who yes does work at ford . has done for years

over wer playing aorund with it . ended up taking the loom out and redoing all the conections just to be sure .

was turning over but not fireing
ended up haveing no spark . so after doing the loom we checked the coil and yeh it blew a coil . grab the one off the eb put it on and she turned over a fired. still poping and f@rt around like hell . reseated the dizzy a few times and did sweet f**k all .

thinking of talking to a auto elec and seeing what they will charge to try and get her going as we r out of ideas

coz now its just blowing coils

also tryed another set of leads to no sucsess

ne1 have ne idea what would keep making the coil blow?

so on the list to get

new leads
coil
dizzy (maybe)
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:57 am 
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hazza just wondering how exactly did you set the timing??? you have to set the base timing first by shorting a couple of pins (next to brake booster I think) work shop manual should be able to tell you anyway. need to short pins or take one to earth (cant rember off the top of my head) start car and set the timing with a timing light on the mark, turn car off and disconnect the wire you used. if not set correctly might cause timing issues cos the ECU does most of adjustments while engine is running even at idle

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:10 am 
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arm79 wrote:
As Mitch said, I wasn't beating you down... I was correcting some bad information.

You can quite easily put the multi v-belt and clutch fan onto an EL engine. Hence no need for thermo fans.

You can quite easily add the extra wires into the loom for the thermo fans and knock sensor. Just run them seperate, put the right plug on one end and add pins to the ECU plug. Voila, you have an EL wiring loom. I do think ebturb would agree with me, as thats how we did his, and it runs more than fine.

However, what I didn't know if that yours is originally CFI - in which case I apologise for assuming. So, yes, its a s**t of work to convert. And yes, the fuel pumps are different.

Now Mary, I know you hate it when you try to offer information and get beaten down. What I hate is when people jump in offering incorrect information on the supposed word of someone from say Ford - eg the comment of a distributorless ignition. Until you have gotten your hands dirty and seen how it all works, then you don't have a 100% idea.

Ford would be the last company I'd goto for information. Unless the dealers are different in Tassie, here they wouldnt know the boot from the bonnet and can be rarely relied upon to offer and decent advice, knowledge or general workmanship. 99% of them are apprentices -cheap labour that yet to have much of an idea on how to fix a car, let alone a Ford. I have dealt with them when my car was under warranty, so I have prior experience with them.

They might tell you what needs to be done, but most likely wont have an idea or the intelligence how to do it... That were FM comes in, as a few people have done it. Basically done what Ford said couldn't be done, in 1/4 of the time Ford said it would take.


Ford Mechanics in Tassie are different..i appologise. Most of them do mods of their own in their own time.

Appology accepted on the cfi thing.

But just because i am female does not mean i don't get my hands dirty...quite the opposite actually.

Thanx for the advice might try without the thermo fans next time.

My mothers eb with el engine is running quite well... but if i had to do it again i might try it that way.

Ok going to start a thread of my own champ is having problems with his eb
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:56 pm 
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agree with arm79 90% of ford service team wouldn't know the boot from bonnet. diagnosed my blocked up cat as a fcuked fuel pump & regulator.
They have a diagnostics plug for a reason ?

 

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