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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:04 am 
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concorde wrote:
your still not reading the whole post are you, you DO NOT need to run an aftermarket computer with low boost applications, it has been tried and proven by CAPA.


Capa use J3 chips in their supercharger kits.

Even TSA use a chip for their 5psi T3 turbo kit.

I remember having this same debate with a forum member who put a snort kit on with the stock ecu. It lasted about a month before the bottom end got noisy.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:47 am 
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that sounds more like an worn engine fault than a computer issue.

even with a Dev kit it does not do bottom end.

all i'm try to show poeple is the comparison between a Dev kit and a turbo set up. bang for your buck is a turbo setup.

i maybe wrong about the Capa kit, i have not found any info on what the kit contains on the site. however, the point stands that a factory computer can still run a low boost setup.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:56 am 
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How many people have been done for having an un-emission complianced head + cam package?
How many people have been done for having an un-engineered turbo conversion?
You can't compare the two, regardless of whether you think one is 'better value' then the other.
If going turbo was so cheap and easy, there wouldnt be multiple turbo kits for sale within the ford community at any one time.
But feel free to prove the theory wrong.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:02 am 
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With the Dev kits, you dont need those extra parts simply because your giving your motor such a huge boost all at once, you go according to your budget, once you install one, your under no pressure in doing the mods that your required to do if installing a turbo, you have lil choice with a turbo, and with the Dev kits you just upgrade as you can afford, from Dev 3, you then spend a lil more which takes you to Dev 4 then the same to Dev 5 and so on, once I get mine to about the 160rwkws and over thats when Im gonna be looking at upgrading my brakes, my next mod was gonna be a really wild cam, from Crow JMM or the Camshaft shop, they each have one that Im interested in, but my daughter got wind of my tax return and put in her order, so, thats sortta stuffed my cam purchase somewhat, (geeeezus who invented kids..??..)..

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:05 am 
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Amendment....

With the Dev kits, you dont need those extra parts simply because your "NOT" giving your motor such a huge boost all at once,

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:08 am 
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concorde wrote:
that sounds more like an worn engine fault than a computer issue.


Sounds to me more like the end result of running a NA tune on a boosted engine (too much timing, not enough fuel).

concorde wrote:
all i'm try to show poeple is the comparison between a Dev kit and a turbo set up. bang for your buck is a turbo setup.


To be fair JMM dev kits are aimed at people who cant/dont want to mix and match components so people considering JMM are probably not the type of people who can piece together a turbo setup at all let alone for a 3k price tag.

Turbo being best bang for your buck really depends on how much power your chasing. If you compare for example the TSA turbo kit - which is to my knowledge the only legal turbo kit available - $6000 gets you around 170rwkw. Thats about the same price and power as a dev 5 kit fitted.

There are lots of variables, but a proper turbo setup is not cheap.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:33 am 
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To be fair JMM dev kits are aimed at people who cant/dont want to mix and match components so people considering JMM are probably not the type of people who can piece together a turbo setup at all let alone for a 3k price tag.

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Hahahahahaha...... mate you GOTTA be kidding me..??.. maybe... JUST maybe... JMM customers are the type who want to go quality..?... could THAT be another alternative..?.. or, even maybe, some people CANT be fuked doing the job themselves, so they get someone ELSE to do it for em..?.. and maybe, you should just check JMM's prices, and see that most his kits are above the $3000 that you mention some cant afford, I went to JMM simply because he was ABLE to tell me what I would get out of each kit, something, that most others couldnt, plus mate, why do you think there are so many workshops around..?.. business is booming, meaning, not everyone wants to do the work themselves, and that DOESNT mean they couldnt piece a turbo together, all it means is..... they couldnt be bothered... :-)

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:58 am 
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What are you smoking?

Denim wrote:
Hahahahahaha...... mate you GOTTA be kidding me..??.. maybe... JUST maybe... JMM customers are the type who want to go quality..?... could THAT be another alternative..?.. or, even maybe, some people CANT be fuked doing the job themselves, so they get someone ELSE to do it for em..?..


Isnt that pretty much what I said - JMM customers are the type of people who want a drive-in drive-out package without having to worry about cam specs, head flow figures, compression ratios, etc.

And I never said their kits were not good quality...


Denim wrote:
and maybe, you should just check JMM's prices, and see that most his kits are above the $3000 that you mention some cant afford


I didnt say anything about not being able to afford $3k, i said it would be very difficult for even an experience person to get a turbo on their car for the $3000 figure that is being thrown around in this thread let alone someone looking who is after a drive-in drive-out package.

Denim wrote:
I went to JMM simply because he was ABLE to tell me what I would get out of each kit, something, that most others couldnt, plus mate, why do you think there are so many workshops around..?.. business is booming, meaning, not everyone wants to do the work themselves, and that DOESNT mean they couldnt piece a turbo together, all it means is..... they couldnt be bothered... :-)


All good points. The proof on the product is in the results, and most of the faster NA 6's are out of the JMM workshop. Certainly nothing wrong with the product.

The point of my post is that it would take a hell of a lot of knowledge to build a turbo car for the price that has been suggested, and the type of person who might be able to do it isnt going to be the type of person who pays JMM a premium price for them to do the work so why compare the two.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:15 am 
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LOL ... my appologies mate but the way you wrote that last post, I read the meaning as different to what you just explained.... its kewl..... (damn I WISH I had something good to smoke)... ya need it after this...

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:51 am 
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downingj wrote:
Mid 14's from an auto??? Not too sure about that mate. I reckon mine would pull a 14.6-14.8 and mine is manual with basically the same set-up as what you are thinking about getting. Mine is also pulling 149rkw (soon to be re-dynoed and I'm expecting that figure to be higher)

JMM is the best way to go if you want good solid power IMO and you don't mind paying a little extra to have that advantage over what other companies are offering.

If it's bang for your bucks your after, I'd be talking to TICKFORD_6. He's got the best bang for your buck set-up going around IMO.


whats wrong with auto's . my missus car is an AU Fairmont and she's getting mid 14's with cam zorst,and stall no head work yet, it can be done with those mods

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:28 am 
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concorde wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
concorde wrote:
you really underestimate poeple. there maybe a few on here that have tried and struggled, but i'm sure there are more people out there that have turbo'd their car quite successfully.

don't generalise and don't say it can't be done, just because you can't doesn't mean others can't.



it can't be done properly, end of story
the prices just dont add up.

Quote:
now for starters, ebay: T04E turbo $600
Ebay wastegate $200
Turbo manifold $950
Pipe work, lines, exhaust $1000
Nissan GTR intercooler form a jap wreckers $200

Leaves you $50 for incidentals.


you didn't mention the cost of the ECU or the cost of tuning.
looking min of $800 for a cheap basic ECU or the average WOLF 3D or EMS about $1300 plus install about $300 plus tuning min of $400.
injectors anywhere from $80 to #150 each.
you price on the cooler pipes and exhaust is a joke you need to double that for a quality job.

sure you can do it for $3000........if you dont want it to run.


your still not reading the whole post are you, you DO NOT need to run an aftermarket computer with low boost applications, it has been tried and proven by CAPA.

if your paying more than $1000 for pipe work your being over charged or your local shop is starting with bodgey work to upgrade you to expensive work.



yes you do. CAPA use a chip not unlike chiptorque
you also need bigger injectors to get past 200rwkw.
you also need a bigger feul pump.

quality pipe work Will cost around $1000 for cooler piping. I know this because i build the stuff and if i did it any cheaper i would be out of pocket. there is $650 just in labour, bends get charges out between $40 and $50 straight pipe is $45 a meter.

the same goes for the exhaust.

we've all said befor and i'll say it again, you can not turbo a falcon for $3000

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:23 am 
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I’m not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I’ve got a friend that did turbo his ED for $3000. It pulled 195 odd rwkw at 10psi, and is a daily driver. He has driven it for over a 1 year now, with no engine problems or anything other problems what so ever. Fuelling is taken care of by a rising rate reg.

Now, I’m not saying that it’s the way to go. I’ve tried to do things on the cheap myself, and have learnt the hard way that most of the time, its worth spending that extra money and doing the job properly in the first place. But if you get the right parts and be sensible about it all you can turbo your falcon, and get a good result for a small $ outlay.
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:47 pm 
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I said this before in other discussions.

These motors that quote 140 plus after spending all there money at JMM or any other supplier never keep the high out puts for long.

If you read magazines you will see people who can build motors with all the right gear at a high price and still blow them up, you can also see people who spend 1/2 the cost produce the same Kw or HP and have engines that out last the best.

Concorde proably could build a turbo for his said amount and will do what he said.

Tickford-6 dose it for a living and he dose it right as far as he sees it.

After all who would of thought that Datamine could do what all the other ECU manufactures spend hundreds of thousands to do. He is proof that it can happen.

I had a freind that spent $12000 on a Chasis and $12000 on a blown crate motor that only lasted 1 lap at Canberra with all the advice from all of the Pros it blew up 3 times thats $36000 to adverage 25km in total. He then built it his way and never failed.

We should not judge people on what we think is right as we will always get proven wrong by someone at some time.

Darren :)

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:52 pm 
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concorde wrote:
whats with you people????

Your talking about pouring $3000+ into an engine to get 150rwkw, for $3000 i would turbo the B**** and get somwhere in the 240-250rwkw.



dont see 240 - 250 rwkw for $3000 in this car.......


tjb45 wrote:
I’m not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I’ve got a friend that did turbo his ED for $3000. It pulled 195 odd rwkw at 10psi, and is a daily driver. He has driven it for over a 1 year now, with no engine problems or anything other problems what so ever. Fuelling is taken care of by a rising rate reg.

Now, I’m not saying that it’s the way to go. I’ve tried to do things on the cheap myself, and have learnt the hard way that most of the time, its worth spending that extra money and doing the job properly in the first place. But if you get the right parts and be sensible about it all you can turbo your falcon, and get a good result for a small $ outlay.




like i said you can't do what you claim can be done for $3000.
that extra 40 - 50rwkw will cost an extra $3000

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Sorry, I didn’t see him claiming 240-250 KW with $3000 worth of turbo gear. Making 240-250 kw from only $3000, is in my opinion impossible. If it was possible everyone would be doing it.
I believe you could get a reliable 170-200kw from around $3000 worth of equipment and doing most of the work yourself. But this is really getting off track as to what this thread was originally about..
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