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Eliminator Chip Tune on DEV 5 EL XR6 ...mixed results?????? 

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:16 pm 
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I'd be putting less stock in what the dyno is saying, and more in what it drives like and what MPH it runs at the strip.
I highly doubt you ran 96mph with the 150rwhp you had before the tune.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:19 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
cjh wrote:
markr154 wrote:
cjh wrote:
Have you done a compression test?????


Not yet.


I'd be doing one to see what you've got to play with, and if not up to speed, then wasting time/money on the dyno.
Did the guys at the dyno joint do a comp test???


Not as far as I know.

OK, will check the compression today ...something else I've never done either :roll:


I'm not being a smartar5e, just pointing out a basic procedure for tuning that often gets overlooked.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
I'd be putting less stock in what the dyno is saying, and more in it drives like and what MPH it runs at the strip.
I highly doubt you ran 96mph with the 150rwhp you had before the tune.


I definitely ran those times ...I at least have the 14.7 timeslips to prove it.

And as I said ...the car definitely felt much livelier then.

But yeah ...it seems like something has happened since the timing chain replacement.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:10 pm 
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OK ...popping out now to get a few bits for a DIY compression test.

What will I need ...and can someone post up a basic run-down on the compression test procedure?

Yeah ...I'm a novice at this s**t ...but you gotta learn sometime.

Cheers.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:13 pm 
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grab a compression gauge from super cheap. remove all spark plugs.
screw in gauge to no:1 plug hole. with the throttle wide open crank the engine over about 3 times.
not down the reading on the gauge, then ceck all other cylinders.

remember cams that close the intake valve later will have a lower reading then a cam that closes the valve earlier.

if you get the valve timming specs from JMM you can work out what the reading should be for that cam

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:56 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
Steady ED wrote:
I'd be putting less stock in what the dyno is saying, and more in it drives like and what MPH it runs at the strip.
I highly doubt you ran 96mph with the 150rwhp you had before the tune.


I definitely ran those times ...I at least have the 14.7 timeslips to prove it.

And as I said ...the car definitely felt much livelier then.

But yeah ...it seems like something has happened since the timing chain replacement.

Ahh k, so it felt worse after the timing chain replacement, I thought you were looking for problems based off the low dyno reading only.

$20 on it being cam timing if it started after the chain swap.
From memory 50thou on the intake at TDC is the Dev5 spec, I think whats ebturbs car is at.
I had my Dev3HL dialled in the same as well, off Brendans instructions.

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:21 pm 
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Had her out today ...and she's never felt so sluggish to drive :(

Absolutely gutless and lagging in 2nd-3rd gear ...with noticeable 'flat spots' at around 2000-3000 rpm ...I put my foot to the floor and the revs struggle to catch up.

Was also a 35 deg C day today, which made things even worse ...she dies in the a** when I put the A/C on, and the temp climbs to the 'O' point on the NORMAL marking on the temp gauge (tad over halfway) ...and at one point I just sat there idling, watching the Temp needle go up while my Oil Pressure needle came down to just one notch above the Red.

Temp still stayed up there for a while when I turned A/C off too.

So yeah ...she seems very sick at the moment.

Would out-of-wack cam timing cause any of this?

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:24 pm 
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mate take it back to the people who fitted the timing chain with proper dialing in instructions and tell them to fix it.

Also how the hell do you measure valve lift? If someone can answer this, then you will know for sure if its out and have proof before you take it to the mechanic
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:03 pm 
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FordFairmont wrote:
Also how the hell do you measure valve lift?


Use a dial indicator on a magnetic stand, and with the rocker cover off measure lift at tip of rocker arm??

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:17 pm 
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um thanks, i might google it, cause i dont have a clue how to do that. Im in the same scenerio as Mark and im not sure how to be 100% positive that the cam timing is out.

Where can you buy dial indicators and roughly how much?
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:32 pm 
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Ok, to cut a long story as short as I can...

When I first bought this car she had BALLS, lumpy idle (since the DEV 5 runs off the stock ECU) but plenty of get up and go ...and just seemed to run better with decent fuel economy (12-14 L/ 100km city driving)

In an attempt to smooth out the idle a little, I bought an off-the-shelf Chiptorque Chip that I was told by Matt at Chiptorque QLD was specifically tuned for the DEV 5 cam ...this smoothed out my idle great, but seemed to make her slightly sluggish with an increase in fuel consumption (16 L/100km)

I removed the chip for a while ...and it was during this time I got my technique together at the drags and ran my 14.59 and 14.7 times.

NOTE: Timing chain rattle was always there throughout this time, and I didn't do anything about it, because I was told that it was normal for DEV 5 Falcons.

THEN ...I decided to sell her, so I had her serviced (oil change, new plugs and leads, distributor cap, ignition coil etc)
The guys who serviced her noticed that I had rev hang, and also a decent idle hunting problem ...so I decided to put the Chiptorque Chip back on, to smooth out the idle and make her more driveable for the sale.

She was then sold ...and the guy who bought her then had the timing chain replaced in an attempt to get rid of the rattle, along with a new centre muffler, as the old one was cracked. He had plans to Turbo her.

The Chiptorque chip stayed on most of this time ...and shortly after, the buyer ran a 14.6 down the quarter (with the Chiptorque Chip OFF)

In a twist of fate, 4 weeks later he found another EL XR6 with a more Turbo-friendly lower-compression engine build ...so he went ahead and bought that, while I bought back my Red pride n joy.

So, I got my car back with the Chiptorque Chip still on, and with a new timing chain installed along with a new centre muffler.

The rev hang was still there, along with the idle hunt / drop when PS under load as before ...but otherwise, she was driving fine.

I then booked her in for the Eliminator Switch Chip tune, in the hope that the DEV 5 set-up could be tuned optimally on the dyno, while removing some of the other niggling running issues mentioned above (idle, dashpot / rev hang etc)

The Chiptorque Chip was naturally taken off, and the ignition timing (which was found to be quite advanced) was reset before the tune.

Which leads us to the PRESENT ...the disappointing dyno result, and her current s**t running..

Is it possible that the advanced Ignition Timing (and Chiptorque Chip) could have been 'masking' a possible cam-timing problem introduced when the Timing Chain was replaced ...and now the cam-timing is screwing everything up, because the Chip is off and the Ignition Timing has been reset??

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:24 pm 
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the ignition timing should have been tuned to optimum point while on the dyno and shouldn't be a problem.

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Yeah, the ignition timing was reset ...but she has been running like a slug since the tune.

Looks like my only option is to wait until Jan 21st ...when the BPT guys can get her back on the dyno with the Rocker Cover off, and check / adjust the cam-timing.

Sorry to plague you guys with my posts ...I'm just trying to understand what the f**k's going on!

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:49 pm 
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the base timming was restet. But the ignition map should have been completly re-done. so regardless of them moving the dizzy, the timing should be optimum

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:59 pm 
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I see ...so if the ignition map wasn't redone ...she'd be running up the s**t?

All I know is that they reset base idle, then tuned her on the dyno after fitting the chip.

I think I should be writing a list of things for them to check / adjust on the 21st...

COMPRESSION
CAM-TIMING
IGNITION MAP

 

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QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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