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Eliminator Chip Tune on DEV 5 EL XR6 ...mixed results?????? 

 

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 Post subject: Eliminator Chip Tune on DEV 5 EL XR6 ...mixed results??????
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:35 am 
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Hey guys,

Finally got my DEV 5 equipped EL XR6 fitted up with a CAPA Eliminator Switch Chip and custom dyno tuned last week.

Dyno sheets as follows:

POWER / TORQUE
Image

POWER / AFR
Image

The 'BEFORE' curves are basically after the first step of returning the ignition timing back to stock before the tune itself ...the 'AFTER' curves.

As you can see ...the results are pretty mixed :?


1. Power is lower than expected at 189 rwHP (141 rwkw) ...I would have expected higher from a DEV 5 ...a bit disappointing.

2. The curve takes a sharpish drop at the 3300-3800 rpm BBM switchover point, and never really regains momentum from there.


The guys at BPT were a little stumped (as was I) ...and said that it was almost impossible to tune beyond the BBM switchover point.

Terry at BPT did say that it looked like I had a 'cam phasing' issue going on.

At this point I will mention that I recently had the timing chain replaced, in a futile attempt to fix the annoying rattle that seems to plague most DEV equipped Falcons ...it still happens between 1200-1500 rpm.

Of course, this got me thinking that maybe the cam timing was knocked out-of-wack when the chain was replaced? (I have the JMM vernier gear installed)

I got on the phone to Brendan Mock and explained the results and the timing chain renewal ...and he virtually said straight away that something must be amiss with my cam timing ...and that I should easily be pulling another 40-50 HP!

Brendan loosely told me that the cam should be running at 50 thou valve lift at TDC on the intake side.

Feel-wise, everything is definitely a lot smoother (especially the idle, and the absence of rev-hang and stuff) ...but I am finding a bit of lag in 2nd - 3rd gear between 1500-3000 rpm, and she generally feels a bit more reluctant to get up and boogie than she did before.

Anyway, I now have her rebooked in at BPT on 21st JAN for them to check and adjust the cam timing while on the dyno ...so I'm definitely hoping for a decent improvement!

Looking at the dyno sheets ...WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? ...AM I ON THE RIGHT TRACK WITH THE CAM-TIMING THING? ...OR SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSES?

I'm a little p****d off at the moment ...because I expected that the Eliminator Chip / custom dyno tune would've yielded much better results!

Any thoughts / suggestions welcome!

Cheers :wink:

 

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QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:54 am 
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I assume youve never had the car dyno'd other than at jmm before this? I'd say your cam timing has been completely f**k up. For you to run that 14.5 you wouldve had more than 140kw @ wheels

I recently had a timing kit installed, and feels like im down on power. Ive had the rocker cover off a few times trying to check the timing and still have no idea how to check valve lift.

The balancer mark lines up when the cam gear mark lines up, but while the No.6 inlet/exhaust valves SHOULD be 'on the rock'....ie: exhaust closing & inlet opening.........instead the exhaust opens way too early and finishes at No.1 piston TDC.

If anyone has a way to check valve timing would be great !!!

Also, what does the aux gear take care of?

Last edited by FordFairmont on Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:43 am 
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unless you slipped a tooth when installing the new timing chain, your cam timing shouldnt have changed, as i assum your cam and vernier gear wernt touched.

the only reason i can come up with as to why your car feels like it has lost something lown low is because the amount of ignition timing advance you originally had through the dizzy was more than what the tune has in it now... this will affect torque big time if you have lost timing, and your reading for torque isnt great, you start off at about 225 instead of around 300 ftlb's which is where it should be (approx 400nm)

it would have been nice to have had a dyno graph before the ignition timing was knocked back to standard...

Quote:
I assume youve never had the car dyno'd other than at jmm before this? I'd say your cam timing has been completely f**k up. For you to run that 14.5 you wouldve had more than 140kw @ wheels

not quite, i ran a 14.4 @96 mph with 143rwkw...
its all about torque...

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:03 am 
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personly i wouldn't be p****d off at the chip/tune. YOU PICKED UP 40HP PEAK!!!! AND ON AVERAGE ABOUT 25HP!!
I'd be p****d off about all the money spent on hardware for the engine and having it under perform.

If you old timming chain was very worn and had streched, by replacing the chain and not touching the the adjustable gear, your cam timming will have changed.

Your 'after' AFRs are good. it leaves ignition timming (i doupt it),
cam timming, exhaust system blockages or a mechanical problem to be the cause of lack of power. (or the hardware it self)


the other ting you need to ask yourself, is Why does the power level out/ drop off at 5000rpm.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:18 am 
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my own personal experience with a dev 5 kit made 190rwkw on a 160000km bottom end. It had stock injectors and no chip. Yes it was installed by brendon mock at his work shop, and it made 187rwkw after i drove the car 1000 km home. with these kits it pays to spend the extra money to get the people who design them to fit them. at the time it was the best result produced by any car with a factory computer(even his eb drag car didnt make that power at the time)

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:05 pm 
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The big question that everyone cannot see is did you setup 50 thou lift at TDC with a vernier gear cam sprocket and did you set it up correctly ?

This would most definately lose you a significant amount of power.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Thanks for the replies guys!

OK...

FordFairmont - You are RIGHT ...I've never had a dyno done before.

FastXR - Yes, the ignition timing was pretty advanced ...it was reverted back before the tune.

Tickford 6 - Yes, the old timing chain was pretty stretched (rattling way more than it does now). I didn't replace the chain, but I have spoken to the mechanic who did ...and he reckons he didn't touch anything, he just took the old chain off and whipped the newie on ...so this itself may have affected cam timing as you say.

Opto - Brendan Mock himself set this car up for a guy in VIC ...I bought the car from him and brought it to WA ...I haven't touched a thing.

The previous owner ran a 14.3 at Calder Park, and I have run a succession of 14.7's as well as the 14.59 PB ...the car felt MUCH more lively then than it does now.

It does seem to me that cam timing is the likely culprit.

 

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QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Definitely NOT pinning any of this on BPT or the Eliminator Chip ...the guys did the best with what they were given, and these preliminary results show that the chip does work.

I just want everything back to how it should be, so that the chip and tune can be optimal on the DEV 5.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:03 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
Definitely NOT pinning any of this on BPT or the Eliminator Chip ...the guys did the best with what they were given, and these preliminary results show that the chip does work.

I just want everything back to how it should be, so that the chip and tune can be optimal on the DEV 5.


What comp ratio is it running????

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:04 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
personly i wouldn't be p****d off at the chip/tune. YOU PICKED UP 40HP PEAK!!!! AND ON AVERAGE ABOUT 25HP!!
I'd be p****d off about all the money spent on hardware for the engine and having it under perform.


Yeah ...it's a sizeable increase ...but the dyno shows that it was already UNDER-performing in stock form ...the final tuned figure is really what it should have STARTED with, maybe more!

If it turns out I DO need cam timing re-adjustment and a retune ...then I should easily be picking up another 40-50 HP on TOP of the peak figure.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:06 pm 
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cjh wrote:
markr154 wrote:
Definitely NOT pinning any of this on BPT or the Eliminator Chip ...the guys did the best with what they were given, and these preliminary results show that the chip does work.

I just want everything back to how it should be, so that the chip and tune can be optimal on the DEV 5.


What comp ratio is it running????


DEV 5 should be running at 9.8, according to Brendan Mock.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Have you done a compression test?????

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:08 pm 
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cjh wrote:
Have you done a compression test?????


Not yet.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:11 pm 
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markr154 wrote:
cjh wrote:
Have you done a compression test?????


Not yet.


I'd be doing one to see what you've got to play with, and if not up to speed, then wasting time/money on the dyno.
Did the guys at the dyno joint do a comp test???

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:14 pm 
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cjh wrote:
markr154 wrote:
cjh wrote:
Have you done a compression test?????


Not yet.


I'd be doing one to see what you've got to play with, and if not up to speed, then wasting time/money on the dyno.
Did the guys at the dyno joint do a comp test???


Not as far as I know.

OK, will check the compression today ...something else I've never done either :roll:

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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