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engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control 

 

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 Post subject: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:34 am 
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Does anyone know what the 'normal' running temp of a 4.0L Fairmont should be? (2000 model) I've used the climate control diagnostics to read the temp, and when I'm using the aircon the radiator fans switch in around 75degC, and out again at about 65degC. Surely this is too low? It means that the fans are pretty much cutting in and out all the time while I drive. This carries on after I turn the aircon off too. It only ceases if I kill the ignition and then start the car again, and it seems normal till I use the aircon again.
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:52 am 
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For an EL falcon as below;

EL thermo fans turn off once your doing 20km/hr, (unless your over 104.5 degrees then they stay on), they turn on LOW SPEED at 79.5 degrees(less than 20km/hr),

I have tested this and found that if your thermostat is too cold or stuck open the fans will keep turning on/off at idle because ecu can't get to correct operating temperature which is around 92 degrees. A 82 degree thermostat caused this annoying issue on my fairmont and it really started to piss me off.

 

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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Thank you - I will check that out ASAP.

I did also find another possible factor - one batt lead was not quite tight causing large surges each time the fans go off and on, which I think was making things worse!

But the fans certainly do not go off with speed - even at freeway speeds they run sometimes.

So it is still not perfect and I'll head for the thermostat next.

However what I do not understand is that the coolant temp surely is the trigger for the ECU to turn on the fans - yet it is showing a low temp! One would think they would stay OFF for too long instead of ON for too long.
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:58 pm 
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arrkwill wrote:
Thank you - I will check that out ASAP.

I did also find another possible factor - one batt lead was not quite tight causing large surges each time the fans go off and on, which I think was making things worse!

But the fans certainly do not go off with speed - even at freeway speeds they run sometimes.

So it is still not perfect and I'll head for the thermostat next.

However what I do not understand is that the coolant temp surely is the trigger for the ECU to turn on the fans - yet it is showing a low temp! One would think they would stay OFF for too long instead of ON for too long.


Does your temp gauge ever get into the normal operating temp bracket on the dash cluster??? The only reason why your fans would come on at highway speeds is if you got the engine really hot, You might have a bad coolant temp sensor??

 

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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:38 pm 
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No - the temp gauge on the dash also remains in the cool region. So both the diagnostic reading (digital) and gauge reading (analogue) show cool running.

This morning I turned on the diagnostics as I left home for work - engine coolant showed 30degC, but the fans came on straight away and stayed on till about 40deg or so. Then they ran once or twice on my journey (10ks) to work - but engine never got warmer than 75deg. But by the time I got to work the fans had settled down and stayed off - but the engine temp still remined cool. I sat idling for a few minutes to watch.

Note here - the problem of the fans is definitely linked to aircon use. If I start the car with the aircon off, the fans do not start up (even though the engine temp remains at it's cool level). However once I've used the aircon, even briefly, and even if it is turned off again, the fans start the silly bugger nonsense.
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:36 pm 
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arrkwill wrote:
No - the temp gauge on the dash also remains in the cool region. So both the diagnostic reading (digital) and gauge reading (analogue) show cool running.

This morning I turned on the diagnostics as I left home for work - engine coolant showed 30degC, but the fans came on straight away and stayed on till about 40deg or so. Then they ran once or twice on my journey (10ks) to work - but engine never got warmer than 75deg. But by the time I got to work the fans had settled down and stayed off - but the engine temp still remined cool. I sat idling for a few minutes to watch.

Note here - the problem of the fans is definitely linked to aircon use. If I start the car with the aircon off, the fans do not start up (even though the engine temp remains at it's cool level). However once I've used the aircon, even briefly, and even if it is turned off again, the fans start the silly bugger nonsense.


your thermostat must be stuck open if it won't get any higher than 75 degrees.. 92 degrees is the correct operating temp which is about 1/4 up the normal gauge or between the A/L of normal in EF/EL's although AU's have different dash cluster writing.


Replace your thermostat or just remove the cover and check too see if it is in the closed position. If it's fully open when removed from a cold engine then it is stuck open..

 

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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Thank you - I appreciate all your comments.
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:11 pm 
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Righto - thermostat is out, and looks fairly normal I'm afraid. Have ordered a new one which I'll stick in later, but the old is shut at room temp, and if I dip it in hot water approaching boiling it opens up. Without a thermometer I can't quite see at what temp it starts to open, but the water is too hot to touch so I'm guessing 70deg or so. The thermostat is marked '68' - presumably 68deg?
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:48 pm 
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I think I'm winning. Compared the old thermostat to the new, and the old one starts opening much earlier than the new in the pot of water on the stove. Stuck the new one in, and the motor quickly warms to 'normal' and shows 88-92deg on the diagnostic readout. Fans seem to behave normally now - but I need to do some more driving to be sure.

Thanks so much for your advice.
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:25 am 
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arrkwill wrote:
I think I'm winning. Compared the old thermostat to the new, and the old one starts opening much earlier than the new in the pot of water on the stove. Stuck the new one in, and the motor quickly warms to 'normal' and shows 88-92deg on the diagnostic readout. Fans seem to behave normally now - but I need to do some more driving to be sure.

Thanks so much for your advice.


I would say you have had a WIN!!! You should notice your fuel economy improve Aswell running the correct temp thermostat tuned to the ECU.

 

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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:02 pm 
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No, No, No - I can't believe it - not quite 100% yet!

Engine runs beautifully at correct temp, fuel consumption is down by about 2l/100kms, but those dang radiator fans still run for nothing if I have had the aircon on at all, and even after I turn it off.

Is there another sensor somewhere, apart from the engine coolant sensor at the rear of the block, which you can think of that might play a part in their control and which might be d**k?

The diagnostic mode permits me to read the temps of all sensors directly related to aircon and they seem in order. (Condensor, ext amb, int amb, solar irrad, etc.)
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Since your car is a Fairmont, I will assume you have an automatic transmission. I am certain the fans also kick in if the transmission is running hot. EF/EL models have an oil coolant line running from the box to the radiator. So if transmission starts to heat up, fans will kick in regardless of engine temperature.

Hope that helps.

 

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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Indeed - a Fairmont, thanks for your reply.

But this problem even occurs with the car is stone cold (early morning). So maybe there is a temp sensor on the transmission I need to locate which might be faulty rather than an actual hot condition?

Or... - do you think the ECU needs to have any historical/previous codes 'read out' to clear a historical fault by any chance? Can this cause funnies, if the log is not cleared?
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 Post subject: Re: engine temperature, aircon control, cooling fans control
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Could be transmission sensor, but don't quote me.

I am not sure about fault codes. I think even if the fault code is there, the fans shouldn't kick in unless the temp sensor reads "I'm burning". Have a look at your ECU earth cable and see if it is loose.

All I can think off.

 

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