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Exhaust Reality Check 

 

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 Post subject: Exhaust Reality Check
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:49 am 
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Hey after reading the many many posts on exhaust systems here I went to my local performance exhaust place to purchase my Pacemakers and Redback exhaust.

I had about $1000 to spend and the guy said to stay away from that stuff.

Curious I asked him why.

Well he went and showed me a set of pacemakers which he had cut a crossection through and you could clearly see that when they make them the metal streaches and becomes thin on the bends. On this one the wall thickness was less than 1mm!

Then we had a look at a redback exhaust system which had rusted through after only 1 year 1 month in service. Apparently it's pretty common for them to do this.

By the way this guy was not dodgy at all and certainly sounded like he know what he was talking about. He has an EF Ghia and has tried 15 different exhaust systems on it as part of R&D.

Anyway what I ended up getting was:

Lukey Extractors - 6 into 3 into one. 3 year warranty
Modified Ford Cat -he showed me a 'high flow' 3 inch cat which flowed WORSE than the standard one!
Custom made middle section - We had a long chat about what sort of sound I wanted and he got it spot on. -2 year warranty
Stainless steel rear section from a V8 -their 2 1/2 inch! -3 year warranty
Stainless steel tip.
Re-fitted Heat shield.
All straight through mufflers.

$1050 fitted.

All this was only $300 more than the pacemaker/redback thing and it is exactly what I want. Not too loud or droney and you can certainly feel the performance increase, apparently much more reliable.

Something to think about for ppl getting a new exhaust, it doesn't cost much more to get something that is custom made and alot more reliable.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:03 pm 
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from what ive read hes definately right about the red back exhausts ive heard of alot of people who said they rust through.
never heard any complaints at all about pacemakers they definately flow very well though
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:14 pm 
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Rapier wrote:
from what ive read hes definately right about the red back exhausts ive heard of alot of people who said they rust through.
never heard any complaints at all about pacemakers they definately flow very well though
The lukey extractors do not have mandrel bends in them & I have heard a lot of people changing them & going to pacemakers & noticing a huge difference. This is why Lukey is one of the cheap headers on the market. Flow tests that have been done rate Pacemaker 4480's & JMM the best allbeit the most expensive.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:23 pm 
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Yeah nothing beats the JMM or Pacemaker tuned length headers, best quality stuff out their. :) You get what you pay for too, pay $300 for average extractors then thats all you will get. But you pay $500+ for extractors and you know your getting the best for your car in terms of performance.

I have never heard a complaint about Pacemaker headers either.. :)

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:27 pm 
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I'm unsure of the build quality of the Pacemakers or the JMM's.. havent seen cross sections of them, but they are undoubtedly the best extractors money can buy for the 4L engines with regards to performance.

I've had a redback exhaust on my Waggin for 4 years. For the last few years its been parked on wet grass in the back yard.. no issues with rusting through.

With the 'OEM Ford Cats' outflowing the '3" High-Flow Cats', thats old news... JMM send all their kits out with AU cats which have been modified with 2.5-3" flanges :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Reality Check
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:31 pm 
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Spork wrote:
when they make them the metal streaches and becomes thin on the bends. On this one the wall thickness was less than 1mm!



Is this not a property of a mandrel bent pipe?? :?:

Interesting read tho spork - sounds like you got a good result in the end. Nice to see the bloke took some time to see what you actually wanted.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:55 pm 
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Thats interesting.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:56 pm 
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yep you cannot get mandrel bends without thinning the pipe. if paceys were no good i'm not sure they would have the reputation they have. i've had mine for 3 years and no dramas. will always flow better than press bends though.

on a side note. how much difference is there between the 4480 and 4499 paceys in terms of street performance. is there a real advantage with the comp ones or only if your a regular at track days?

sorry for the hijack

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:33 pm 
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out of all the research and reading I've done most people move on from lukey extractors to pacemakers if they have the cash, and ppl with pacemakers hardly ever complain either. It sounds like you got a semi custom install which seems nice, but I'll stick with pacemakers when I get the chance
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:39 pm 
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We also talked about the performance side of things. And I had a look at the Lukeys and pacemakers right next to each other. I can see that the lukey's are not madrel bent however the presses are very gentle. and do not protrude into the pipes much at all. I asked him about what sort of headers etc. and basically they fall into 3 categories:

1) Cheap crap - all the cheap dodgy e-bay brands around $300

2) Midrange - He grouped the cheaper pacemakers lukeys and and a few other brands here around $500

3) High end - This includes the cramic coated pacemakers, JMM, HM headers, race series, stainless steel etc. $800 +

Really considering I am not going for 180RWKW he said it's not much point in going for the High end. In the mid range there is not much difference in performance at least on my stock motor I would not be able to tell - and he has tried them.

I went for the Lukeys becasue I asked his opinion and he said that's what he would put on his car. 95% of performace of pacemaker, more warranty and reliability. same price.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:59 pm 
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Dude, of course mandrel bent extractors are going to be thinner.
Did you get a press bent exhaust too because it was more "reliable"?

That extra $300 could have easily gotten you another complete redback exhaust in 2 years time when the warranty runs out.

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:32 pm 
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Anyone ever seen mandrel bent extractors with a "failure" on a bend?

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:40 pm 
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i think mandrile bent pipes would flow better becuase on a pressed bend like on my car fromt he previouse owner somtimes the flow doesnt flow as well and u can loose some high end power, becuase when the exhaust gasses hit the pressed bend they flow straight into the bottem of the pipe and then the gases bounce around and slow down the extracting process.

with mandrile bent they just flow smoothley because there is nothing slowing it down no corners thats why mandrile bent is better.

and for stainless steel there should be a liftime warrenty but for the price you got it for id be happy with that realy happy and it seems you are so thats all that matters.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:58 pm 
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Awesome price, mate - it sounds like this guy gave you really good service. Its great to see small businesses looking after the customer like that!

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:20 pm 
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Spork wrote:
I asked him about what sort of headers etc. and basically they fall into 3 categories:

1) Cheap crap - all the cheap dodgy e-bay brands around $300

2) Midrange - He grouped the cheaper pacemakers lukeys and and a few other brands here around $500

3) High end - This includes the cramic coated pacemakers, JMM, HM headers, race series, stainless steel etc. $800 +


The prices on that are wrong, my 4490's are ceramic comp spec and they only cost me $650.

Just gotta watch for guys like these though, You walk into their shop looking for one thing in particular and they can talk you out of it...
The amount of exhaust shops ive been into and had the manager tell me theyve 'tried 100 different systems' and 'i regularly race my ford on the track with this system that YOU SHOULD BUY AND ITS THE BEST'.
The story is getting old in my opinion.
Basically dont believe a word of what they tell you (Except about the hi-flow cats being crap cause they are) they are generally trying to steer you towards a cheap system they can build themselves for pennies and charge you expensive labour for doing it.

Also, Never had a problem with my pacies.
Another also, (Looks up a few posts) I do wish people could learn to type english...

I dont know about what you paid for your system, But If it sounds nice, goes hard then in hindsight it was worth it :D
Nothin beats gettin ur exhaust done, now you get to cruise around and show it off, heehee :D
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