Fordmods Logo

Flow Chart Figures. 

 

Page 2 of 3 [ 36 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

WagonDad wrote:
quote "how do you figure that from a flow chart with poor high lift flow?"

Not having a dig, but are the high lift flows good enough for you now tickford_6 :D



yeah they are getting up there.. :wink:

I wasn't having a go at you about the flow numbers.

I'd still like to see that same head with a 2mm over sized intake valve.

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Yeah I know you weren't having a go, just thought I'd stir things up a bit, when I first started porting my head people asked if i was going to get the head flowed but I didn't, now that I have got the head flowed there's not much interest, yet the head is where you get the majority of your power from, yes I have spent several hundred dollars having valve guides removed and replaced, throating and seats cut but the porting I have done would have cost a fair bit to achieve these flow figures. Just trying to show people with a bit of patience and hard work you can get a head to flow as good as a JMM head that would cost you a fortune and you have done it your self.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:40 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 43

Posts: 3804

Joined: 22nd Apr 2007

Gallery: 5 images

Ride: DENTED UP OLD AUT WAGON

Location: Wellington
New Zealand

Keep going WAGON DAD.

Some people say stuff like
"Why even bother? These heads are good for xxx horsepower anyway"
and stuff like that.

I say
"every little bit I do to the engine or the car adds up and by making a lot of changes you can get a lot of difference. Slowly but surely."

Am impressed with your effort, needless to say.

NEXT TIME I HAVE A TICKFORD HEAD with its bigger valves I'll not be throwing it out or cashing it in. I will spend some free time on giving it the best I am capable of.

Sure, if you're going to spend thousands on the head you should start looking at the bottom end too, but you gotta start somewhere, right?!


Serious about supercharging myself. One day. The AU block seems a little better suited to this application with its shorter conrods and less moving crank weight (crank, pistons and rods) ???

Have you sourced any information on different pistons with a lower dish to reduce compression by the way? Have emailed a number of suppliers searching for just such, but guess they pick up on the fact they're dealing with an amateur as seem to have been asking too many questions - thus, they can't be bothered replying. If I just rang and said "how much for piston xxxx?" they'd probably sell me some... But I'd order the wrong thing currently, and need help.

Good to see the wagons being taken seriously too mate!

Every little bit helps - we are dealing with a technology that is not very efficient - the internal combustion engine. Any little thing you can do to make life easier for the engine is worth something.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Hey fiend, Gotta love the wagons.
Super charging is also on my list some where in the future so I have done a some checking, ACL used to make larger cc dish pistons but in their stock duralite range, there might be some old stock floating around good luck finding them.
Yes the AU engine is probably better suited to boost with it's better balanced and stronger bottom end but there are plenty of turbo charged E series engines out there hanging in just fine.
As for " These heads are good for close to 300HP stock, why botther porting them" My take is this - The port velocity on a well ported head should be as good if not better than a stock head, so with the increased CFM and better port velocity at any given point of valve lift more air/fuel will enter the cylinder more air/fuel equals more power, also better low lift flow on both intake and exhaust helps fill or evacuate the cylinder pushing and pulling more air/fuel increasing the volumetric efficiency creating more power. I will never in naturally aspirated form use my heads theoretical 370HP but the gains are not just made high in the rev range and as we know our straight sixes dont like to rev to high but have heaps of torque through the mid range, thats why I didn't increase the mid port size very much over standard so to keep good port velocity which helps increase torque.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

WagonDad wrote:
Yeah I know you weren't having a go, just thought I'd stir things up a bit, when I first started porting my head people asked if i was going to get the head flowed but I didn't, now that I have got the head flowed there's not much interest, yet the head is where you get the majority of your power from, yes I have spent several hundred dollars having valve guides removed and replaced, throating and seats cut but the porting I have done would have cost a fair bit to achieve these flow figures. Just trying to show people with a bit of patience and hard work you can get a head to flow as good as a JMM head that would cost you a fortune and you have done it your self.



I'm interested, I hope you don't mind, but i've copied all of your photos.
your latest numbers are right up there with what people spend over $1000 to get.
Do you have the cc of the port befor you started working? to compare with the cc of the end product.
I've also link this thread to the porting bible so it can be easily found.

Still waiting for the bible to be made a sticky though.

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Hey tickford_6, Good idea the Porting bible, brings all these obscure little threads together.
Unfortunately I dont have the stock port CC but at a guess I would say around the 115 to 120 mark, if any one has a stock head lying around I'd be happy to CC it. The thing I found most interesting was that removing only 7cc of material in the right place of course gained 24 cfm.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

WagonDad wrote:
Hey tickford_6, Good idea the Porting bible, brings all these obscure little threads together.
Unfortunately I dont have the stock port CC but at a guess I would say around the 115 to 120 mark, if any one has a stock head lying around I'd be happy to CC it. The thing I found most interesting was that removing only 7cc of material in the right place of course gained 24 cfm.


That was on the short turn? lowering and widening
what you might have found if you had probed the port before and after is that there was bad flow separation on the short turn,
Do you know what diameter cylinder adapter they use on the flow bench?

i think you'll find some more flow by widening the long side about the same amount you did on the short side.
Also filling about 3mm on the floor of the port, blended to where you finished laying the short turn back too, should shrink the cc with out hurting flow. (can be done with plasticine and flow tested before committing to a more permanent solution.

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 3363

Joined: 27th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: MCMXCV Falcon

Location: G town
VIC, Australia

what cam u gunna run with this head.....whats the combo u got (diff ratio, trans, intake, exh etc)...

cam selection is the least understood area in performance builds....knowledgable people are rare in this area, and i dont profess to be one....but I do know its all in the cam...all in the cam...did I mention its all in the cam....

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:02 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Yes that was from laying back the short turn radius and widening, I agree the work on the short turn probably fixed an air flow seperation problem resulting in less turbulance. I dont know what cylinder adapter he used but he does a lot of ford 4.0L haeds so I'm assuming the same as our cylinders 92.25mm. I have heard of raising the floor but generally in conjunction with widening to maintain a uniform cross sectional area. I would be tempted to widen even further directly to the sides of the valve guide making up for area the taken up by the guide and valve stem, again giving a more unifrom cross sectional area.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 28

Posts: 2477

Joined: 10th Mar 2007

Gallery: 27 images

Ride: 1995 EF Fairmont

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

tickford_6 wrote:
I'm interested, I hope you don't mind, but i've copied all of your photos

Lol me too, you did a bloody awesome job on the head WagonDad. Im currently studying it as i work on my 91aa head :lol:

+1 for this porting bible tickford_6.. It would make for a very interesting read and there is bound to be a lot of interest in it :wink:

 

_________________

Money Talks, But All Mine Ever Says Is Goodbye
EF Fairmont - EFF111 Build Thread

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:29 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 3363

Joined: 27th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: MCMXCV Falcon

Location: G town
VIC, Australia

will be very interesting to see the improvement down the 1/4...especially if your keeping your setup exactly the same...

mind you a 15.1 does seem a bit slow for what youve got already....

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

WagonDad wrote:
Yes that was from laying back the short turn radius and widening, I agree the work on the short turn probably fixed an air flow seperation problem resulting in less turbulance. I dont know what cylinder adapter he used but he does a lot of ford 4.0L haeds so I'm assuming the same as our cylinders 92.25mm. I have heard of raising the floor but generally in conjunction with widening to maintain a uniform cross sectional area. I would be tempted to widen even further directly to the sides of the valve guide making up for area the taken up by the guide and valve stem, again giving a more unifrom cross sectional area.



If you really want to go to town on it you could raise both the floor and the roof equal amounts.
it be a bugger to get the intake to line up properly though.

 

_________________

PERMANENTLY BANNED

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Hey gogetta, I will be staying with my current set up with the 1636 cam, I thought my quater times were a bit slow for the RWKW but the fairmont wagons are around 100kg heavier than a stock sedan, also when the tune was done the tuner wasn't able to advance the timing as much as he thought he should be able to due to pinging, we couldn't find a reason for this but when I took the head off I noticed the AU gasket was protuding slightly into the chamber more than likely causing the pinging, after a bit of measuring I found the AU gasket bore measured 94.00mm and the EF gasket measured 96.00mm, I used the EF gasket to mark the head when I did the chambers even though I stayed away from the mark by 1mm the gasket was hanging into the chamber 1mm probably causing hot spots, something to keep in mind, any way I think with a bit more advance, power and quater times would have improved.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 3363

Joined: 27th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: MCMXCV Falcon

Location: G town
VIC, Australia

WagonDad wrote:
Hey gogetta, I will be staying with my current set up with the 1636 cam, I thought my quater times were a bit slow for the RWKW but the fairmont wagons are around 100kg heavier than a stock sedan, also when the tune was done the tuner wasn't able to advance the timing as much as he thought he should be able to due to pinging, we couldn't find a reason for this but when I took the head off I noticed the AU gasket was protuding slightly into the chamber more than likely causing the pinging, after a bit of measuring I found the AU gasket bore measured 94.00mm and the EF gasket measured 96.00mm, I used the EF gasket to mark the head when I did the chambers even though I stayed away from the mark by 1mm the gasket was hanging into the chamber 1mm probably causing hot spots, something to keep in mind, any way I think with a bit more advance, power and quater times would have improved.


interesting gasket discovery.....

with your hi-stall and diff gears a 1673 cam or bigger shouldnt loose much low end accel and give a nice boost to your topend....maybe an additional 10rwkw...1636 seems to be very mild.....gezza200 is running an auto with stock convertor and 308 gears and is very happy with it...

anyway cheers on posting a quality thread...

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Flow Chart Figures.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:28 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 50

Posts: 480

Joined: 10th Feb 2005

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: EF Fairmont Station Wagon.

Power: 150 rwkw

Location: Mandurah
WA, Australia

Hey guy's, thanks for the replies. Just a quick question how do you do the "Wagondad Wrote:" box with the copied quoted area, I have tried the quote button but it doesn't turn out like the box. Thanks.

 

_________________

4.0L EF Fairmont Station Wagon. EL GT Snorkel. K&N Pod in air box. 3" Intake piping.
Home port job. 1636 Wade cam. Wildcat Extractors, 2 1/2" cat and exhaust.
2200/2400rpm Dominator More Stall. Stage two mechanical shift kit. 3.73 4 pinion LSD. 15.078 @ 92mph.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:19 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names