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forgot to locktight headbolts 

 

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 Post subject: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:27 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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So, I feel like a tool...but.
Working on my car this arve.
Re installed the sump with new gasket. Got timing gear all lined up and head on. Everything going very smoothly. Got a few pullys on and other things then....
Oh what's this on the bench.
The locktight for the headbolts.
Frig.
My question is how vital is the locktight?
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Ive never used lock-tight for any thing on my motors . so don't worry about it
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:37 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Mate I've never used locktite on head bolts and never heard of anyone using it on head bolts, as long as you tentioned them properly in the right order you'll be fine.
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:46 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Oh thank f**k.
Was fretting hardcore. Haha.
Thanks everyone!
Also. Its really hard to change the sump gasket with the engine in the car.
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:54 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Using loctite on headbolts is a BAD thing, thank f**k you didnt use it, use clean engine OIL only on the headbolts. Easiest way to do sump gasket is to remove the motor or the K frame

Gab
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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My new headbolts came with locktight tho? If its bad why do they suggest it?

I know its easier engine out of k frame out but I only get to work on my car after work and I had to have it in the corner so we can fit the rest of the overnighters in.
And the engine crane called it quits, so I was left with the engine lifter (basically a piece of square bar with a long thread in the middle with a hook at the bottom.)
Could lift the engine about 7 inches wich was handy but still not easy to clean and install gaskets and bolts.

Ahh well, ill be back in the shop at 6am till 9pm again tomorro.
Inching closer.
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:46 pm 
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ive never used lock-tight on any mechanical work ive done :).
never had anythin rattle loose or come undone.

locktight head bolts into the block and you will probly never get em out,. lol

 

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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:03 am 
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Benny D wrote:
ive never used lock-tight on any mechanical work ive done :).
never had anythin rattle loose or come undone.

locktight head bolts into the block and you will probly never get em out,. lol



I agree never heard of anyone using loctite for head bolts
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:39 am 
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I've always used locktite on head bolts, its a tip I was shown by an ex-ford mechanic of many years. However, his opinion was use the weakest one you can get, its not there for the locktite effect. Its there to lubricate the threads so you get a (more) correct torque reading. Oil is better than nothing, but apparently its a bit thin and tends to get forced out of the thread. As long as you used something to lubricate the threads, I rekn you will be fine
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:13 am 
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anti seize is the way to go, which is a lubricate for threads
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:20 am 
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well loctite is anaerobic, meaning it reacts to the absence of oxygen, which means as soon as the threads start tightening the thread locker starts reacting rendering it useless as a lubricant when sequentially tightening series of bolts, especially undoing them also.

ex ford mechanics for the win..... :roll:

most imperative thing is the bolts are new, and oiled,they are torque to yield (tty) bolts which mean they stretch when torqued up. Its impossible for a loaded tty bolt to undo itself.

Thats why they sell assembly lube.....

 

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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:16 am 
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...loctite won't act as a lubricant...it will just stick and thus causing inaccurate torque readings. Clean oil on thread and clean bolt holes is all that is needed...

Loctite should be used on brake caliper retaining bolts, flywheel bolts etc...things that have vibration running through it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:00 pm 
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I'm not gonna swear by it, cos im not totally sure either. But I have always done it and never had any trouble with a headgasket afterwards, and a few of the ones I've done have over 100,000k's on them. My logic is that it wont have time to start setting by the time youve done up you head bolts, but I wouldnt leave it for half hour and come back to it, thats for sure.

TTY bolts CAN undo themselves, I've seen it on a test rig. Forces would be way beyond anything you would see on a head though, plus they need shear forces, whereas head forces are axial. You would be way more likely to break one that have it undo on you!
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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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if a bolts in shear.... it can't undo because it's physically loaded & locked into position. Having said that a cylinder head bolt is never in shear.. it's under expansive forces & as long as all bolts are torqued evenly can't undo.
simple explanation would be: ever tried to undo a horizontal bolt by hand when it's loaded ? you can't, you need to remove the load or increase the turning effort.
If your cars loosening torqued tty bolts it sounds like it needs a balance more so than loctite.

loctite has no ability to tell time, it works on being free of oxygen as I mentioned, which means as soon as it's in an engaged thread it starts going off.

a few over 100000 k's ? what happened to the failed ones under 100,000 ? most go past 200000 km when done properly and treated right.

regards to the flywheel bolts... i've re-used second hand pre-stretched ones without thread locker and still never had a problem, not that I would advise doing so.... TTY bolts, which flywheel bolts are also, are throw away items. Also having said that, flywheel bolts usually come with their own thread locker that is NOT anaerobic so that you can torque the bolts sequentially.

 

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 Post subject: Re: forgot to locktight headbolts
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:06 pm 
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87SIlude wrote:
My new headbolts came with locktight tho? If its bad why do they suggest it?

I know its easier engine out of k frame out but I only get to work on my car after work and I had to have it in the corner so we can fit the rest of the overnighters in.
And the engine crane called it quits, so I was left with the engine lifter (basically a piece of square bar with a long thread in the middle with a hook at the bottom.)
Could lift the engine about 7 inches wich was handy but still not easy to clean and install gaskets and bolts.

Ahh well, ill be back in the shop at 6am till 9pm again tomorro.
Inching closer.


?? - They came with a little sachet or tube? - if they are genuine and like many other genuine bolts had the dry type patch of blue locking compound then the whole topic is really confusing...

As a mechanic of sorts (Aircraft Engineer) I can absolutely agree with using some sort of locking compound on the headbolts (chemical anaerobic activation process will not impede torquing unless you are a very slow worker) - I have had to do THREE Falcon head gaskets in 15 years and EVERY time I have found AT LEAST THREE loose bolts during the disassembly process. These have been all first life gasket jobs - ie. fitted by factory - and ALL of the factory installed bolts have been dry as an Arabs A******e and RUSTY!!! Gee, I wonder why the Fecking gaskets ended up failing??? If E-series Falcons were an American car there would be a class action pending - but we are typical apathetic Aussies...

 

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