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Further mystery to bad running engine 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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think about how its possible to inlet backfire one of these motors...

you would need to have a leaking valve or crossfiring on the leads....the energy of the coil is jumping leads and finding an easier path...pull the plugs and check them

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:58 pm 
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fuel can pool up in the ridiculously bent intake, it should never have dropped lower than the ports, damn space restrictions. mine also backfired with the cat blocked, causing too much back pressure pushing fuel back the wrong way.

i noticed 90% of my problems have occured upon startup because theres so much going on such as enrichment & self checks. the computer might be breakfast.... i say breakfast coz it doesn't quite sound lunched.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:48 am 
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fiftyone wrote:
ok figured out why the manifold gasket blew out. its backfiring (timing out) in to the airbox big time.

so i've narrowed it for you all (i'll check the plugs again) what am i looking at? keep in mind that i think the timing is out slightly normally and the timing goes completely out the window twice on two separate occasions SOMETIMES at start.


Have you got a timing light yet to actually check it? You need to do it yourself, most mechanics working on EL's don't wait 2mins after shorting the diagnostic pins, so your base ignition timing becomes retarded.

Buy a timing light $30, short the pins on diagnostic connector-wait 2mins engine stumbles set the timing--turn engine off, install 6*$3.50eack ngk spark plugs. Now start car and report back.............................................................

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:08 am 
Getting Side Ways
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have you checked fuel pressure?
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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Sounds exactly like a problem I had

As 66 coupe says, check fuel pressure regulator. Replace it with one from a car that's running ok. Takes about 30 mins. to change.

Don't go to Fraud to buy another though, the sell for $250 each!!! :shock: :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:20 pm 
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fuel reg was changed, along with injectors, filter several times, pump. etc

have checked the timing before and it jumps around a bit. had a look at the plugs today and they were white on the electrode and speckled on the outer. i'll chuck some normal ones in it this week

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:04 am 
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plugs looked a bit rooted but as with changing them, the response and power has gone up but the miss is still there.

Im almost 100% im chasing a timing issue here. I read somewhere that the MAP sends data which then tells the TFI to advance and retard. The ECU also has a predetermined map in it, plus takes data from the IAT and TPS to figure it out (iat changed and tps checked)

whats the next step? ecu / tfi (tfi will be the second time

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:28 am 
Parts Gopher
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If your timing is jumping around abit it is more than likely a distributor, aux shaft issue. As others have said, rotor button and cap would be the place to start. Check the backwards and forwards movement of the rotor button by trying to turn the rotor by hand. There should be very little movement either way. If there is play remove the dizzy and check both the dizzy drive gear and the aux shaft gear for wear. The teeth on the gears will feel sharpish to the touch if worn. Also look that the distributor turns smoothly and that the vane travels thru the pickup evenly.
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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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how much play should there be in the rotor? i have a bit but im not sure if its ok or not. got to run now, will post more later

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:10 pm 
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There should be very little play in it as the dizzy shaft has no centrifugal weights etc. It is one shaft straight thru it from rotor button to drive gear. Up and down movement should be 2 or 3 mm. Shouldn't be tight. Thats where I got caught out. Rotating movent virtualy nothing. Just a little. If there is none at all, your dizzy is probably binding.
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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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didnt try and pull it up and down but theres a bit of slop side to side (rotation), wouldnt think this would be a huge issue as id be seeing more probs otherwise (constant stalls insted of twice at startup)

the other reasons i dont think its the aux shaft is because the issue wasnt progressive, it just started one morning, and in three years hasnt gotten worse. Mechanic that swapped the dizzy 1 month after it first started said it didnt look too bad either.

phongus wrote:
I get a flat spot as well up to 2000RPM after first start...well it feels that way because the car doesn't pull after 2000...I figured it's my hand brake stuck, because as I drive slowly it squeaks and once I get to about 30km/hr it suddenly loosens up and it's back to normal driving.


phong- did you check the shaft when you did the gasket doco on your car?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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MickEBS wrote:
If your timing is jumping around abit it is more than likely a distributor, aux shaft issue. As others have said, rotor button and cap would be the place to start. Check the backwards and forwards movement of the rotor button by trying to turn the rotor by hand. There should be very little movement either way. If there is play remove the dizzy and check both the dizzy drive gear and the aux shaft gear for wear. The teeth on the gears will feel sharpish to the touch if worn. Also look that the distributor turns smoothly and that the vane travels thru the pickup evenly.


just remembered as well, absolutly no play up and down of the rotor and shaft.

Very strange, today the car feels much stronger in the low mid range and hasnt stalled out?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Well police ecu goes in ANNNNND! nothing... :cry:

stall and shakes and shimmies are still there. Next time its in i'll ask a mechanic about the aux shaft. cause thats about the only other thing i think it could be. It REALLY doesnt explain why it started all of a sudden but if its gone its gone.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:13 pm 
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if you recently had a head gasket change i would check the timing sounds like it is 2 teeth out

 

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 Post subject: Re: Further mystery to bad running engine
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:22 pm 
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fiftyone wrote:
phongus wrote:
I get a flat spot as well up to 2000RPM after first start...well it feels that way because the car doesn't pull after 2000...I figured it's my hand brake stuck, because as I drive slowly it squeaks and once I get to about 30km/hr it suddenly loosens up and it's back to normal driving.


phong- did you check the shaft when you did the gasket doco on your car?


Sorry about the reply on this one :shock:.

Nah I didn't. The engine that I used during my head gasket change was a working engine...well according to previous owner. So I assumed it's all good. Arm79 and I pulled the distributor out one time to fix replace my TFI and we had a look at the gear on the end of it, seemed fine and not worn. No metal shards as far as I could see, so I think it's safe so far.

My engine however, has a rattle noise now, which I think is due to by big end bearings. So need to sort that out.

In saying that, I have noticed that I barely get the 2000RPM flat spots anymore...the occasional one everytime during start up, but not as much as I used. Also I have found by warming up the engine (5 - 10 mins) prior to driving, I never got a flat spot...*shrugs*

 

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