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Head Work quote for LPG suitability 

 

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 Post subject: Head Work quote for LPG suitability
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:37 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: Falcon ED Classic

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Hi Guys,

After the old 93 ED gli classic was running rough in the mornings plus a few other problems including a vast loss of coolant with no external leaks visible. Me and a friend of mine who is a mechanic decided to pull the entire engine apart to check the head gasket. We saw some yellowish chalky build up on a few spark plugs and, after pulling the engine apart found the head gasket was blown between 3+4th cylinders. My friend said it is best to get the head re-surfaced (re-machined is the term he used) so we ran it over to a place that specialises in Head Work. The man there had a look and said because my car is dual fuel, it would benefit from having harder valve seats installed? He has quoted me 550 for new valve seats, new head gasket and head bolts, new guides???, and re-machined head. Note, we are re-assembling the engine ourselves.

I asked about any head work that would increase performance but he said that it would require new ECU and CAM and wouldnt be worth it.

Is this price reasonable?

Last edited by 94_Classic on Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:58 pm 
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sounds about right, if you go ahead with the deal, MAKE sure he's not giving you a standard ACL head gasket.

Its been covered many times, use AU steel gaskets, it'll up ur compression a little bit (perfect for gas) and most likely you won't be doing it again!
also when cleaning the deck don't use a wire attachment on a grinder/drill, always use a scraper and some CRC gasket remover.

on the other hand, a basic head machine shop will be able to surface the head and regrind the valves install new stem seals (basic reco) for about 300ish. might even be worth getting a change over.

Also the AU head gasket usess a different head bolt torque.

best of luck!

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Unless you are planning to see the odometer go round again I would not bother with the hardened seats, the standard ones will last a long time before you have issues. If and when you do then it is cheaper just to get another head.
Save your money a simple shave and leak test is all you need.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:13 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Most unleaded cars already have hardened seats. Some cars on LPG aftre a few klms will recess the valve into the head, only if this happens would I recommend going to new seats

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:14 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Alright,

Thanks for the quick replies,

I will make sure I get the AU gasket instead of the standard one, I think he was planning on giving me the standard one. As for the removal of the old gasket from the block. I have just been using a scraper tool without any spray, and blocking the oil channels with bits of clean rag.

As for the seats, aparently the ones on there are very corroded and cracked due to me running it on GAS all the time. I am planning to run the car until it dies as I live 40km from school and drive every morning and, without GAS i wouldnt drive at all.

Thanks for the great replies!
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Follow up to macxr8,

Yep the valves have recessed back into the head which I assume is why new seats were recommended.
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Might be cheaper to source a 2nd hand head and get it reco'ed without seats than doing ur old one up.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:34 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Better to do it once then hoping the standard valve seats will hold. Do it properly the first time, it might be cheaper then pulling everything apart second time round.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:44 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Yep I think I am gonna go for the full reco with new seats and all. Saves me pulling the engine apart again later on. Those inlet manifold bolts are unbelievable!!! Cut my hand's up pretty bad because of some cable ties holding the coolant hoses together!
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:45 pm 
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heh, shouldn't of cut the dag off the ties!

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Slick wrote:
Better to do it once then hoping the standard valve seats will hold. Do it properly the first time, it might be cheaper then pulling everything apart second time round.


EL on virtually straight gas went for 320000 klms before the oil rings died. Had the car for over 150000 klms and never had the head off.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:46 pm 
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^depends on a few things, condition of motor, service history & how its driven like how we old f@rt do, the occasional hooliganism. :lol:

we get cars of the factory that f**k up before the first service & we get cars that last beyond its serviceable life span.

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 pm 
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To really get the best out of any cylinder head (alloy or cast iron) hardened valve seats, stellite faced exhaust valves and k-line (brass) guides are required. The reason is that gas is dry. Petrol, even atomised, still has some lubricant qualities. Unleaded fuel is only marginally better than gas too so running an engine on unleaded fuel (when it's not designed for it ie. pre 86) needs to have some thought put into it.
The dryness and extra heat hammers the face of the exhaust valve and the insert that it runs on in the head. The valve guides wear out because there is not as much lubricant there either. Brass has some self lubricating qualities so these are fitted to the exhaust guides as well. They are not entirely necessary on the inlet side but is good practice to fit them anyway.

I used to reco cylinder heads (am a qualified engine reconditioner) and was doing gas heads all the time. Not saying it was happening in this thread (or about to) but I get sick of hearing people say gas doesn't hurt your engine and all this other s**t. If you has seen some of the damage I have seen that was primarily caused by gas you'd either set the engine up right the first time or not have it at all.

I owned a dual fuel car and got sick of the compromise in tuning-son no more gas!! Gas is not much cheaper out here anyway and I was using twice as much of it relative to high octane petrol :wink:

 

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