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help with valve springs... 

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:57 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 30

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Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
WA, Australia

I never used any sealant on mine and no leaks, but I may just be lucky :D

If you let the oil out of the HLA's you can compress them quite a bit. With oil I have found they dont always compress down even if there is pressure on the springs. (ie. they can push the valves down a little).

If I remember correctly I may have been using 0.8mm shims. But cant really remember. Does anybody know if you can just meassure the change between the base diameter of a standard cam and the reground cam, then just use that amount of shims?
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:27 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

you could also get the hla's primed with oil, by unfurling paper clip, and pushing down on ball valve, & pump them full of oil using an icecream container or the like, a few goes like this until all air bubbles disappear
ford manual describes priming them in this kind of way.

also on rocker cover gasket, i used blue rtv only on the front & rear where the semi circle starts on either side
watched a mechanic put dobs here & he said it was usually where they leak
doesn't need much

good luck

 

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

hmmm thanks for the replies... i had another read of the rpd install guide and it instructs you to take the HLA apart before shimming?

http://justfordima.koolhost.com/CamSetUpGuide.htm

Quote:
Pull #1 intake and exhaust lash adjusters
apart as you will need to use the body for
checking the clearances. You will need
to shim them up so that there is zero to
very minimal clearance between the lash
adjuster and the valve tip. You may need
to shim them a couple of times but it wont
take long and keeping in mind that you
only have to do this for one cylinder"


is this how other people did it?
my original shims were 0.9mm so I was running 1.8mm in both sides.

I did a rough measurement between the old and new cams and it looks like approx 2-3mm has been ground off on both in. and ex.

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:37 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 30

Posts: 112

Joined: 5th Feb 2006

Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
WA, Australia

Well first I emptyed the oil out of the HLA's (just 2, one for intake and another for exhaust), put it back together and you could squeeze it a fair amount. So I put it back into the rocker gear with the original shim and the other shims and bolted everything back down. Then I pressed on the rocker arm to see how much lash I have.

Hope this is correct, as this is what I have done :P
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
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heh well... i pulled two hla's apart, and put just those 2 in with original shims (still pulled apart....). and shimmed it until i had roughly the additional height of the assembled / fully compressed HLA play.

=5.5 mm ex and 4.4mm inlet

seemed like a mightly lot of washers

what happens if its shimmed too much?! :O

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
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You seperate the HLA and use just the body for checking clearances. For shimming you need to have the HLA assembled, other wise when you try to run the engine the valves wont close properly (i think).
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:47 pm 
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omfg... well now i really need some help lol :S
put it back together, and started it up...

now its running really badly, missing on at least one cylinder
still clicking like a mofo (but i assume this is cos the HLA;s havent pumped up).

is the missing likely caused by too many shims or, something else screwed up somewhere along the way?

thanks guys :D

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:49 pm 
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just read your post eggead. well... possibly now i have too many shims ;) sheesh. i would appear to be reasonably hopeless at this :O ima take it apart again tomorrow and take some out.

 

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mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:49 pm 
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If the ticking doesnt go away after a while, then theres too much of a gap somewhere.

Ive read that RPD setup guide and i couldnt exactly follow what needed to be done also. That why i went with a Wade cam, 1 extra shim in each lifter, easy :wink:
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:14 pm 
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yeah its not incredibly clear :( I dont want to drive it anywhere right now until I work out why its running badly (missing). dammit!!! argggh

at this stage im not sure if i should pull it down and mess with shims AGAIN... or buy another set of plugs... but i am sure I didnt crack any along the way!

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:19 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 30

Posts: 112

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Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
WA, Australia

It could be that the valves are not closing properly (ie. too many shims)

I would take the shims out and re-shim on the safe side (2 or 3 less than what you have now). The ticking will last for a while until it gets driven a bit.

I have about 4mm of shims + original in the exhaust and 3.2mm of shims +original in the intake. This is with a fair amount of lash adjustment aswel. (Had a look at the link you posted and it had a couple photos which where missing if my pdf, so it makes more sense now).

If you are still having trouble tomorow, I will strip mine down and take some photos of the processes (and get some measurements aswel)
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:24 pm 
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well... i have had a lot of work today so havent had a chance to do much. I pulled the rocker gear out again, and re-shimmed it with 3.3mm on the inlet and 4.2mm ex.

with this amount of washers + original shim, there is still movement (~1mm or a little more, from the HLA compressing) in the rocker with an assembled hla (with the pressure bled out of it ) on both inlet and ex.


so... fingers crossed it will be ok this time?! does it sound OK or should I take out a little more...

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:13 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
WA, Australia

Sounds pretty good to me, you where running a fair bit more before so this cant really do any harm. Wouldnt think so anyway.

If you bled the oil out of all the HLA's expect it to make a lot of noise when you start it up. It would need to be driven before it would start sounding better.

I'm curious how your car will run though, mine (on petrol) runs really rich, dumps black smoke even at idle. On gas it idles like a dream and runs fairly good aswel. Is there a simple solution to fix this? I've got a megasquirt here so I might wire that up in the next couple weeks and see what I can get with that.

On another note, does anybody know what the maximum rpm you would want to rev the 4L's and what would die first? (Valve bounce can occur, according to rpd)
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:24 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
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wooo well its back together and running good. clicked for awhile until the hla's pumped up but now it seems to be running good, no sounds whatsoever. havent started it from cold yet, but hopefully it doesnt click for ages like it did before... but I have more shims now tho so hopefully now it will be right.

seems to run ok, its idling almost like stock. power seems to come on at ~2500 -> and go fairly hard. slight hesitation around 3800-4000 which might be something to do with the bbm swapping over.
havent seen any black smoke yet... its going on a dyno friday arvo so will see what it looks like. before with the stock cam it already run really rich... ~ 11.3:1 @ WOT.

still has the "whirring" sound but i have heard a couple of people with the rpd r3/r6 get the same thing.

so yeah :D will post up a power figure and some a/f's on friday ;)

 

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1997EL 5spd
mods: 2.5" redback catback, DBA slotted rotors, Pacemaker 4480's, Tint, K&N pod, 17" rims

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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:21 am 
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Age: 30

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Ride: EL gli

Location: Perth, NOR
WA, Australia

Ok, sounds great. It will be good to hear a figure for the power this cam makes. Remember to advance the timing a bit to take some more advantage of this cam.

Hmmm. i havent heard that whirring sound on mine :( But I was amazed at the idle (on gas) even though mine is an auto. Petrol it searches and usually doesnt settle. But manual conversion this weekend. Woot!

Ive been wondering how this cam compares to the wade 1673 cam.
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