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Is she advanced or a retard?? 

 

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 Post subject: Is she advanced or a retard??
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:57 pm 
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finally got the EL into eb motor cranking

BUT...

-it will only start full throttle
-exhaust fumes smell rich as bill gates

it seemed retarded to me so i advanced my cam a tooth and seemed to get worse, also when i advanced my dizzy it got slightly better but cannot advance anymore and still isnt great

any help would be great coz i cbf pulling everthing apart and putting it all back together several times via trial and error

PS cannot use a timing light as my harmonic ballance does not have the mark
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:08 pm 
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starting to sound like trial and error time
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Have you had this engine running before, or was this in the upgrade too?

Firtstly i'd get a manual and make sure that your cam timing is spot on, and you should probably do something about a mark on the balancer so you can properly check the timing.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:28 pm 
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yeh it used to be my eb engine but got the whole bore out new pistons rods ring bearings the works
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:34 pm 
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i have an ef harmonis balance with eb timing case maybe i could chuck a mark on the timing case i dunno
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:42 pm 
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Well yeah i'd be checking those things first. You don't want to cause any damage now!

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Take spark plug out and carefully find top dead centre.. Then mark balancer...
If you don't do the basics as foundation ?? Then NOTHING else is going to work..
You don't have any reference points to go by either...

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:24 pm 
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so at tdc on compression stroke should my dizzy be right on lead1 1 or just before it (cam 3o'clock)
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:39 am 
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map sensor / hose?
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:34 am 
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as ebxr8380 said find tdc with a plug out.. mark the balancer and then retime everything else.

how oculd you even atempt to time it up without knowing where tdc is?

-mitch

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:07 pm 
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and what balancer doesnt come with timing mark?

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:57 pm 
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biggav wrote:
and what balancer doesnt come with timing mark?

The tab on the timing cover is at the top on an EB motor but to the side on an EL. So when an EB harmonic balancer is fitted to an EL motor the points are about 25 to 30deg out.

If tdc is found on the compression stroke, and the dizzy fitted using the "before" and "after" marks inside the dizzy, surely that is designed to get you within ballpark.

Once you are within ballpark, i have devised a simple method of adjusting the timing that is as accurate as you want it to be and more. It is particularly useful for modified motors where there is no factory setting and a setting needs to be devised. I located a point on the dizzy module that is a reliable measuring point, ideally about 115mm from the axis of the dizzy. I then measure at a tangent to the dizzy axis with vernier calipers from the reference point to a fixed point on the motor. If your reference point is 115mm from the dizzy axis, one millimetre of adjustment equals one degree of adjustment. This is actually an academic point, it's not crucial or even important. I did this on a motor with a log manifold so i used the depth function of the verniers, placing the end of the depth guage into a recess in the module, and the upper outside caliper against the end of the ISC. I wore gloves because of the heat.

Turning the dizzy anti-clockwise advances the timing. If the car pings wind it back then slowly advance to fine tune. After each adjustment of the dizzy you probably should cross the upper and lower left side pins on the test plug in the cabin to run the self test mode, so the ECU adjusts to the changed timing. I do this and i think it's important, but i'm not sure (it could just be a waste of time).

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Hahaha. Thats a lab rat way of stoppin it pinging. Tidy work. The ECU doesnt need the test mode. It does it straight away.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:30 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I did this on a motor with a log manifold so i used the depth function of the verniers, placing the end of the depth guage into a recess in the module, and the upper outside caliper against the end of the ISC.

I should have stated that i placed the end of the depth guage into a recess in the module/plug.

Quote:
I wore gloves because of the heat.

I wore one glove on my right hand while turning the dizzy. My hands were naked when i used the verniers.

Quote:
If the car pings wind it back then slowly advance to fine tune.

I say this because if it's pinging you don't want to slowly wind it back until it stops pinging, because that involves too much pinging, especially if you don't have a knock sensor. You want to wind it back enough to stop all pinging in one go, then advance slowly until you get a ping, then retard approx. 2 degrees. Use full throttle right through the rev range on a straight back road to check for pinging, and take account of the performance of the motor. Also be cognisant of the fuel type and what that means.

Quote:
After each adjustment of the dizzy you probably should cross the upper and lower left side pins on the test plug in the cabin to run the self test mode, so the ECU adjusts to the changed timing. I do this and i think it's important, but i'm not sure (it could just be a waste of time).

I ackowledge the response to this in the previous post. As it happens i flicked through my manual just before i logged on this evening, and noticed the section on the self test, and yes, nothing is said about it changing the ongoing running of the motor.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Haha I don't know if its just me or what but i keep reading this thread expecting some sort of blonde joke type thread or something.

 

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