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Issues with running big cam and no chip. 

 

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 Post subject: Issues with running big cam and no chip.
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:43 pm 
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I'm just wondering what the implications would be in running a big cam (Wade 1521a or Crow Stg 3) without a chip. I will be getting a Unichip in the future, but want to do the mods piece by piece as finances permit.
I guess the idle would be affected, but are there any other problems?

 

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 Post subject: The car will run like s**t.
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:53 pm 
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The car should still idle, it will just sound lumpy as f**k, and may stall occasionaly, depending on the valve overlap times. I have done some cams on an ed 4.0l, crowcam stage 3, and had it chipped the next day, ran realy rough and was irritating to drive under 2500rpm, kept hesitating. I can't imagine driving it for a couple of months. Fuel economy wouldn't be to good.

Or you can chip now and cam later. Or just save and do it all at the same time.
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 Post subject: The car will run like s**t.
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:53 pm 
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The car should still idle, it will just sound lumpy as f**k, and may stall occasionaly, depending on the valve overlap times. I have done some cams on an ed 4.0l, crowcam stage 3, and had it chipped the next day, ran realy rough and was irritating to drive under 2500rpm, kept hesitating. I can't imagine driving it for a couple of months. Fuel economy wouldn't be to good.

Or you can chip now and cam later. Or just save and do it all at the same time.
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 Post subject: Re: The car will run like s**t.
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:56 pm 
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Muffy wrote:
The car should still idle, it will just sound lumpy as f**k

That sounds good! mmmm lumpy *drool*

I thought fuel economy would be affected, the car isn't a daily driver, I have a bike and a work car for that :) the chip is a unichip, so its not really an option to get it first. Getting it all at once would make sence, but i'm impatient and want the cam NOW! ;)

 

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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:57 pm 
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I am running a 1521A with a stock ECU. It doesn't idle at all on petrol (duel fuel) and it runs very very rich, so if you care about your fuel economy.... The engine is useless below around 2000-2500rpm so be prepared to keep the revs up.
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:01 pm 
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NC Steve wrote:
I am running a 1521A with a stock ECU. It doesn't idle at all on petrol (duel fuel) and it runs very very rich, so if you care about your fuel economy.... The engine is useless below around 2000-2500rpm so be prepared to keep the revs up.


Fuel consumption isn't a huge issue as its only a weekend car at the moment. (trying to get a new BA out of work as a new company car)

Keep the revs above 2000-2500 rpm, now problemo :D 5 speeds help for that :)

 

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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:00 pm 
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I would unichip first and cam second. Just get the chip reprogrammed once the cams in.
A big cam will make the car slower, give poor fuel economy and big flat spots.
By bad idle, you do understand this to be allmost on the verge of constantly stalling dont you? That aint cool.

Biggest cams would be best left last.

 

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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:06 pm 
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drazull wrote:
By bad idle, you do understand this to be allmost on the verge of constantly stalling dont you? That aint cool.


agreed. my mate put a stg 3 crow cam in his EF - ok-ish whilst actually driving, but starting/stopping/idling at lights etc - just stupid - could not idle at all - just something to consider!

 

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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Lol, i wish we could get a sound clip of walkinshaw's monty. The idle on that thing is crazy... it literally sounds like someone is sitting in the car, revving the thing over and over and over. Theres a good 2500 hunt...

I think extra timing advance at idle is the trick to smoothen the 6bangers out?

 

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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:19 pm 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
I think extra timing advance at idle is the trick to smoothen the 6bangers out?


assuming you mean bumping up the base idle martin? if so - that only works to a point. my stg 2 crow will hold idle ~800 - 850rpm - even then, its still not great. a stage 3 - you'd have to be pushing the base idle to around 1000rpm to hold idle - which is far too high :? the smaller cams respond better to an improved base idle, but the stg 3 onwards have some serious issues with holding anything resembling an idle.

 

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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:27 pm 
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Nah sorry fraser - crappy response on my behalf... i was referring to the tuning side of things... i.e. why a unichip/other ECU mod is the go... as i believe the trick is to advance timing to smoothen the idle...

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:58 am 
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Could you install a crow cam stage 3 and then get it dyno tuned instead of getting it chipped would that resolve the poor idle and fuel economy?

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:20 pm 
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possibly but still not the ideal way to go about getting it to idle right.
Big cams require a chip. If you want a big cam and no chip then the dev 3HL is the only option.

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:43 pm 
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Quote:
I would unichip first and cam second. Just get the chip reprogrammed once the cams in.


Sounds like its the expensive way to go.Just wait til you can get it all done in one hit. Save yourself the second retune of the Unichip.

If it's any comparison I had the dev5 in my manual au xr6 and it ran fine. No stalling or bad behaviour at all. I have no experience however with how the Crow cams are though.

 

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:12 pm 
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bradders wrote:
Could you install a crow cam stage 3 and then get it dyno tuned instead of getting it chipped would that resolve the poor idle and fuel economy?

Short answer no...
even wacking the car on the dyno, what do you tune? you cant tune the standard ecu without a chip.

a dyno tune on a standard ecu really means SFA :roll:

 

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