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Lifter replacement, head gasket questions, and more fun! 

 

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 Post subject: Lifter replacement, head gasket questions, and more fun!
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Hey everyone, the constant tapping is driving me nuts so I just got a new set of lifters from Bursons ($11 each) and was getting set to replace them in the next few days hopefully. Hopefully it's the lifters and not something else otherwise I'll cry. Not too big of a job right, just fiddly?

I was speaking to my mechanic and he reckons its not a good idea flushing the engine out with diesel oil because all the buildup would get clogged in my lifters and such, but if i'm going to replace them is there any reason I should/shouldn't flush the engine out? My only hesitation is the engine has done a good 260k and buildup might be holding it together hahaha. Reckon it'd be worth chucking a bigger cam in an engine that's probably on it's way out?

Also I'm being plagued by constant fear of a busted head gasket but I haven't had any serious problems just yet. My idle is a bit rough and the car just sometimes has a day where it'll drive worse than usual but nothing really persistent. It doens't help that I don't know if it's ever been replaced in it's lifetime either :S The worst that's happened is maybe I'm losing a bit of coolant every now and then and the 5th and 6th plugs were fouled up a bit with what looked and smelt like dried coolant but that's it. No milky oil, no oil in the water. The only other problems I can think of are possibly the MAP sensor and not the greatest cylinder compression. I recently replaced the MAP sensor and it's only really started doing the dodgy idle since then so I'm thinking I may have put a bunk one in, how would I test that? And the compression, well, too much hassle for now haha. Does anyone on here have a car that doesn't have constant problems or concerns lol, every time I think it's all going good something sets off some alarm bells!
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:10 pm 
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Hey mate,

260ks isnt all that bad i reckon. These engines (guessing you've got an i6in an E-sereis or something) are very reliable if kept in reasinable condition so i wouldnt be too worried about the kms its done. Mines just clicked over 215k and its still going hard without anything being reco'd yet. :lol:

The lifters or HLA's wouldnt be too hard maybe abit of a fiddly job i guess, havent done it yet so wouldnt know for sure but i'll definately find out when the head comes off for a head gasket change. Im losing coolant down the exhaust side of the block so you could check there just in case thats where your coolant maybe going. Wouldnt know about flushing out the engine with diesel oil, id just stick with changing the oil and oil filter and the just renew things like spark plugs and leads, air filter, fuel filter, etc and see how it goes from there. The leads and plugs could have a bit to do with the rough idle so give that a try.

You could put a mild cam in the while you're doing the HLA's, but if you have the extra money and can afford you'd be better off going extractors and 2.5" exhaust to get full benefit of the cam, but thats all up to you

Anyways all the best with getting the HLA's replaced, if you run into any issues, theres always likely to be someone on here who will know how to fix it :wink:

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:28 pm 
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lifters are easy enough

remove the rocker cover, stuff some rags in the oil galleries in the head (4 i think)

loosen all the rocker bolts (10mm) starting from the outside ones working your way clockwise to the middle, then go over them again till theyre all pulled out. As your loosening the bolts the rocker arms will lift up and s**t will fall out everywhere, i find wrapping some tape around each lifter/rocker arm as they lift up is a good way of keeping them together and not missing bits and pieces

Once youve pulled off the rocker gear, place on a clean surface pull out the hla (lifter) & shim in each rocker arm and clean the s**t out of there, then push the shim back in there with the side with the 3 marks facing the valve (down).... make sure it CLIPS back into the rocker arm, then push the lifter back in. Because the lifter is new, it will sit in the rocker arm ok, but if you ever need to remove the rocker gear again they will tend to fall out, its good to wrap some tape around the lifter to hold it it the rocker arm, and remove tape as each lifter starts pressing down on the valve when you re-install

Do up the rocker gear bolts starting from the middle working your way to the outside bolts.... do it in two stages so you dont flex the assembly too much. Do the bolts to 20nm torque

Dont forget to remove the rags in the oil galleries
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Ok for your oil flush dont use diesel oil (very bad for the engine can cause excessive damage).Use an oil mobile 15w 40 xhp plus oil it is a semi syn oil and will help breakdown buldup slowly without doing any damage to your engine components.
We use this oil in most of our cars at work its a good mineral lubricting oil but has a small detergent mineral in it to prevent sludge build up and helpdkeep the inside of your engine clean.I' know on the older engine you tend to use the 20w 50 because of the higher km's but i use this in my ED i6 it has 260,000km on it and runs like a brand new ed i6 no noises doesnt use oil or water and goes good too.

As for your coolant leakage i would check all your hose clamps and tighten them.Also check the O ring for leakage at the rer of the water pump (steel pipe which enters the rear of the pump).
Also as KWIKXR mentioned about the coolant leaking down the exhaust side of the block this is very common on the e series and also on the BA's and BF's .AU's dont have this problem but they tend to crack heads.

As for fitting the new lifters make sure you soak them in new oil and also smear alittle rubber grease around the lifters to help them hold in the rocker gear so they do not fall out into or over the motor while installing it,rubber grease will break down very quick once the engine has started.Also make sure you do not loose the shims inside the rocker arms.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:41 pm 
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I find plastic bags work well for stuffing the oil galleries. you get no lint in there then. Oh and stuff the front section of the head too where the cam shaft sprocket is. You don't want a hla falling down there!!! You would be unlucky for it to happen, especially if you have taped them up but better safe than sorry.

Oh i love the user name too, lol.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Oh and you can test the map sensor to, you just need a multi-meter that reads frequency.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:51 pm 
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KRUPTD wrote:
Ok for your oil flush dont use diesel oil (very bad for the engine can cause excessive damage).


care to explain that a bit.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Ok well if you use a full oil change or diesel oil it doesnt have the lubricating properties as normal petrol engine oil,thus doesnt lubricate the bores effeciently and as mentioned earlier diesel oil will not break down the sludge build up in the engine but will loosen it up and block oil galleries causing oil flow problem and wearing out bearings and moving parts.
An example my friend had a 94 festiva and a old lady owned it had over 150,000km on it and the oil used on the servicing of the car was crappy oil and there were large amounts of sludge and baked oil inside the motor.Well my mate just went and bought some diesel oil and did a straight oil change with the diesel oil and 1 week later it fouled up a plu on number 4 put a new plug in it and fouled it up again within a couple of days and started to us some oil so he decided that we rebuild the motor.
So while i'll pulled it about removed the pistons to find that number 4 piston compression rings broken opposite sides to each other and that oil ring was all gummed up and part of the piston skirt was broken.
Also noticed on the conrod bearing wear surfaces the pitt and scuff marks from insufficient lubrication.
So had come to a conclusion tha tthe diesel was to be blamed,had a mate who has a engine building shop who had a look at it and came to the same conclusion.
So if you want to try using deisel oil by my guest but try to 1l to 5l of oil or add 500ml of ATF oil DEXRON3 to your oil change to help slowly remove the sludge.Also remembering to replace the filter at every oil change to prevent blockaging in the filter.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:17 pm 
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When we done the cam in my EF we had to put shims in the rocker arms, but the Lifters definatle did not fall out.... we had to use a punch and a hammer they were in there very tight!
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:19 pm 
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KRUPTD wrote:
Ok well if you use a full oil change or diesel oil it doesnt have the lubricating properties as normal petrol engine oil,thus doesnt lubricate the bores effeciently and as mentioned earlier diesel oil will not break down the sludge build up in the engine but will loosen it up and block oil galleries causing oil flow problem and wearing out bearings and moving parts.
An example my friend had a 94 festiva and a old lady owned it had over 150,000km on it and the oil used on the servicing of the car was crappy oil and there were large amounts of sludge and baked oil inside the motor.Well my mate just went and bought some diesel oil and did a straight oil change with the diesel oil and 1 week later it fouled up a plu on number 4 put a new plug in it and fouled it up again within a couple of days and started to us some oil so he decided that we rebuild the motor.
So while i'll pulled it about removed the pistons to find that number 4 piston compression rings broken opposite sides to each other and that oil ring was all gummed up and part of the piston skirt was broken.
Also noticed on the conrod bearing wear surfaces the pitt and scuff marks from insufficient lubrication.
So had come to a conclusion tha tthe diesel was to be blamed,had a mate who has a engine building shop who had a look at it and came to the same conclusion.
So if you want to try using deisel oil by my guest but try to 1l to 5l of oil or add 500ml of ATF oil DEXRON3 to your oil change to help slowly remove the sludge.Also remembering to replace the filter at every oil change to prevent blockaging in the filter.



are you for real. you don't think years of s**t servicing had anything to with it. you're blaming 4 days of diesel oil not 150 000km of s**t servicing. all that you did was clean out the s**t that was helping to seal around that piston. ANYTHING that removes s**t from inside an engine has the potential to cause damage.

you will also find any diesel oil with a normal amount of ZDDP will equal the lubricating ability of petrol engine oil.
Been running gulf western topdog XDO in our falcon for the last 3000km, the XDO having one of the highest amounts of ZDDP (it legally cannot be sold outside of Australia) I'm not worried in the slightest, we've also used it to run in our race engines (flat tappet cams need the ZDDP to live) and none have shown any problems during regualar tear downs.

IF diesel oil can't lube pistons and bearings properly, WHY are so many diesel engines out lasting petrol engines.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Sorry to mention that the diesel oil propeties dont lubricate enough i didnt mean it in that sens i meant it as being probably a better oil and being to good for the engine in the mineral's.But if my friend were to use just some normal cheap oil it would have lasted a few more thousand km's,as you had mentioned it has cleaned the oil build up around the rings and piston and caused some engine damage.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:47 pm 
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KRUPTD wrote:
Sorry to mention that the diesel oil propeties dont lubricate enough i didnt mean it in that sens i meant it as being probably a better oil and being to good for the engine in the mineral's.But if my friend were to use just some normal cheap oil it would have lasted a few more thousand km's,as you had mentioned it has cleaned the oil build up around the rings and piston and caused some engine damage.



the oil didn't cause the damage. the damage was already done. the cleaning just caused it to show it's head.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:29 pm 
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Thanks for the replies guys. Haha just realised I never actually posted any info about the car itself at all. It's an EF Ghia, manual, I was thinking of tackling the cam because I've already gone the exhaust and extractors route. With the idle I've only just replaced the plugs and leads less than a few thousand ks ago, MAP sensor was replaced in an effort to fix fuel economy but a few holes in the exhaust, loose bolts on the extractors and faulty 02 sensor caused that. The coolant leak is a s**t because I replaced the water pump a while back and it's had a slight leak ever since I've had it. New radiator, hoses and thermostat housing as well. Doesn't blow water out the exhaust either. I'll check the side of the block to see if I can see anything when I do the lifters, otherwise there's no actual visible leakage anywhere that I can see. Cheers for the info FordFairmont, should definately help. But we'll lets see how I go without a manual to look at and complain about how wrong and not detailed it is haha. I've got a multimeter, how exactly do I test it and what reading do I want to be seeing? Hmmm maybe I'll skip on the diesel flush for now at least, I'm already using semi synthetic oil at the moment, that penrite 15w60 stuff. Thanks again guys.
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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Testing your maps pretty easy. Your multi meter will need to have frequency or in other words Hz. you will need to remove the kick panel to gain access to the ecu find the correct pins and do as your repair manual states. Just take your ecu out of its clamp and leave it hanging on the floor but make sure you reconnect the earth wire to the body before you do testing.
I could advise you on how to test a EB map but i don't know the correct readings for a EF map so i wouldn't want to give you a bum steer.

 

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