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My DEV 5 EL XR6 a tad sluggish / unresponsive ...any ideas?? 

 

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 Post subject: My DEV 5 EL XR6 a tad sluggish / unresponsive ...any ideas??
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Hey all,

As title suggests, I'm just wondering about a possible 'glitch' I've been experiencing with my 5-spd EL XR6..

I've got the JMM DEV 5 cam / head / intake / headers / exhaust package ...and have recently had the car custom tuned with an Eliminator Switch Chip.

I might add that before the tune, I had issues with 2 broken timing chain guides / timing chain cover etc which made the initial tuning impossible ...she ran like a dog initially, likely due to erratic cam timing caused by these issues.

This was fixed up, along with a base idle reset (as she was a few degrees advanced) before a retune with the chip ...and she made 215.7 rwhp (161 rwkw), which I was quite happy with.

However, I've been noticing more recently that although she is running much smoother overall ...she seems to have lost some general peakiness and responsiveness to what she had before.

To explain further, I can drop her into 2nd or 3rd (and sometimes 4th if I've been in 5th) for a bit of acceleration ...and she just seems to hold back a little.

If I drop her into 2nd or 3rd and plant my foot to the floor, the revs generally struggle to catch up ...they get there eventually, but a bit slower than before ...and it seems that the revs and responsiveness are NOT following the pedal action.

This only seems to happen when she is under load / in gear ...in neutral she seems to rev freely and quickly.

I've also noticed that my exhaust is generally sounding a little 'f@rt' under acceleration, and my temp gauge also rises a bit more when I give her some throttle.

In summary, she's lost a little 'sting' and peakiness to what she had before the tune ...although she is idling and running smoother.

Something is not QUITE right ...any idea people?

Cheers :wink:

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I'll kick this off with the possibly the obvious (but hey thats what I'm good at) clutch slipping?

Maybe the initial load when changing down gears is slipping the clutch and then it catches up when it finds grip (clutch wise).

 

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:11 pm 
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Blocked/stuffed cat?? or muffler baffles collapsed

 

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Timmeh wrote:
I'll kick this off with the possibly the obvious (but hey thats what I'm good at) clutch slipping?

Maybe the initial load when changing down gears is slipping the clutch and then it catches up when it finds grip (clutch wise).


You know what ...that could be a possibility!

When I first bought the car, it had a JMM modified Brass-button clutch (the previous owner had killed 2 other clutches previously) ...it was very grippy, but that eventually went too ...and then I replaced it with a lower-rated Exedy HD organic clutch for better driveability.

Cos other things I've noticed are:

1. Frequently a light rattle / knocking sound under the car in the general gearbox area.

2. If I change into 1st from 2nd, or pull out of 2nd into neutral when slowing to a stop at the lights ...the revs will quite often drop, then surge up and hold at 1100 rpm for a few seconds when I take it out of gear, then it slowly returns to idle ...it also happens when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd.

So, it could be a clutch problem ...what do you think?

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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mark, try resetting the ecu, ie disconnect the batter for a 1/2 hour and reconnect. That will isolate the ecu from holding the timing back for any reason, and see if its still unresponsive...
Might pay to stick a timing light on it
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:32 pm 
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i reckon it could be the cat, which would explain the hesitation and the rattle.

 

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah ...I had a list of possibles:

Rooted or blocked CAT
Injectors / Fuel system blockage
Intake Leak
Head Gasket (but no obvious signs of leakage)
Bad elecrical earth somewhere
Slipping clutch

I even found that she was a tad less peaky on a recent trip to the drags ...and could only manage a 14.9 ...when before at least 14.7's were a given!

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:54 pm 
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What condition are your leads in? With the "f@rt" sound in the exhaust, sounds like it mightn't be firing properly under load... just a thought

 

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:14 pm 
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I would consider timing as well......

You really shouldn't be noticing a temperature increase due to sporadic heavy throttle.... I surmise it could also be a timing issue.

I would probably discount the clutch (sorry Timmeh) solely because it seems to be happening in neutral as well (unlikely that a clutch is going to effect free reving). In my experience anyway..... you know when a clutch is on its way out. It's pretty obvious!

If it was a vac leak at the mani, usually they will hunt around for an idle for a long time. Is it doing that? To discount it, spray some carby clean or similar near the intake manifold flanges and see if the rev's go up. generally if it's got a vac leak and you do that, you'll see a change in revs.

A fuel blockage will generally cause it to break down at higher revs (ie noticeable hesitation in acceleration...feels like it's missing (cos it essentially is)).

I also like the cat as a likely suspect for the loss of performance and rattle. That would be a definate point of interest for me......

Re the rattle under the car..... my old EB XR8 used to have a rattle in the T5 which more than one gearbox shop told me was pretty normal. If it's not too bad, I wouldn't stress too much.

 

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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:15 pm 
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Plugs and leads were replaced shortly before the tune.

I think I originally had Auto-Lite Plugs (which JMM specify for their kits) but I've got standard Motosport plugs and Bosch leads now.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:49 am 
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I'm gonna disconnect the battery anyway (got some new terminals to slap on) ...so we'll see how she runs after that.

If she gradually redevelops the problem ...then we'll know it's a sensor or timing issue.

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:27 am 
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I had similar prob but far worse. The story is complicated but in short, went back to 24lb injectors (from used 'standards' fitted for tune) and problem temporarily stopped until plugs started fouling from tune and other reasons.

Maybe leaning out on accel under load??

Did they change plugs? if so, look for fitting of non-xr plugs and what do they look like (colour, burn, etc)?
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:50 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Just put on new battery terminals and gave each connecting wire a scrub with a wire brush, since a previous workshop had sprayed a Blue coating on them for god knows what reason (anti-corrosion I guess) ...everything seemed pretty well gummed up with it.

I'll see how she drives over the next day or two.

While this is a slight PITA ...I'm not too fussed, since she will coming off the road for some major assessment & changes soon..

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:54 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Just took her for decent drive (3 am is as good a time as any) ...and she ran pretty sweet, with definitely a better response in 2nd & 3rd gears (2nd in particular much better).

Exhaust didn't sound f@rt at all, temperature didn't really fluctuate (cold night but), and even the Volt gauge didn't really drop like it did before.

Trip computer fuel consumption started at 58 L/100Km but very quickly dropped to 12.5 L/100Km, settling at 13.1 L/100Km at the end of the run ...again lower than the steady 14.1 L/100Km she was showing before.

So the initial signs after the battery disconnection & terminal change / connection clean-up are good ...I'll just have to see if the sluggishness slowly reappears over the next couple of days.

Just one question at this point ...could a bad battery connection for the connecting wires (alternator / starter / amp / earth etc) possibly cause these sort of symptoms?

I'm thinking from the point of view of essential sensors & components getting a poor voltage supply for correct, efficient function.

Because so far, it DOES seem that the new battery terminals & connection clean-up have made a difference!

 

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Hot Chilli Red EL XR6, 5-spd, JMM DEV 5 enhanced (161 rwkw custom tuned), Eliminator Switch Chip, 18" BA GTP rims, Pedders Superlows, BA XR6 badges, BA Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo, Splits, 6x9's, 10" sub, 700W 6-ch Viper amp.
QUARTER MILE PB: currently 14.590 @ 96.00 mph ...BOOST AHEAD!!

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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:05 am 
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It's a fair chance that any improvement you saw would be more attributable to the fact it was 3am and probably only 10 degrees ambient.

I wouldn't think that a dirty battery terminal would cause such a degredation of performance that you would notice it. Pretty obviously everything was sitting pretty close to 12v and charging effectively..... otherwise you would've had charge issues!

Can't hurt to have clean battery terminals tho!

 

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