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New engine build up 

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:15 pm 
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As far as the build up - im pretty happy with the way I went (I had similar plans and constraints as you). I rebuild the bottom end with ACL race series parts (except the rings - changed them for a different brand of moly rings), balanced it all and added a hi volume oil pump. I doesnt get you any more power but it makes for a solid engine to build on.

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:21 pm 
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All over-kill for a N/A daily driver though..

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:15 pm 
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stockstandard wrote:
I have serious doubts that an 4.0 can be built to handle 7k rpm (by handle I mean can regularly be revved there without blowing)


Brads car was doing it easily. there are prolly a few other members on here that can say that also. this thing just kept making power. too bad brad never got it tuned right :)

and hyena jases motor is mostly head work. im pretty sure the bottom end was just a standard rebuild with a HV oil pump. and this thing is putting out the same tourques as the XR6 turbro. The head on it is taken to the absolute maximum and he is running the same cam as me :)

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:15 pm 
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smoke_rubber wrote:
sell your second car, keep the xr for yourself, buy your wife something nice and work it up as much as you can!


got my vote
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:18 pm 
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ReGiE wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
I have serious doubts that an 4.0 can be built to handle 7k rpm (by handle I mean can regularly be revved there without blowing)


Brads car was doing it easily. there are prolly a few other members on here that can say that also. this thing just kept making power. too bad brad never got it tuned right :)

and hyena jases motor is mostly head work. im pretty sure the bottom end was just a standard rebuild with a HV oil pump. and this thing is putting out the same tourques as the XR6 turbro. The head on it is taken to the absolute maximum and he is running the same cam as me :)


Jason's bottom end got lots of strengthening.

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:21 pm 
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its a daily driver that also gets abused on race tracks.. that way I can justify a few more "useless" bits.

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:51 pm 
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if it's still going to have stock rev limmit, you will never hurt the stock rods and crank.

the guys at RPD know what they are doing,
but in trying to get as much as you can will still keeping it 'wife' friendly, pay close attention to all the small detail often over looked.

things like deck hight across all cylinders, cc the chambers run tight piston head clearence (35thou) make sure there are no sharp edges in the chambers or on the tops of pistons.
this will let you run compression on edge with minimal risk.

make sure all the ports flow the same and what ever manifold you use has even runner flow across all 6, again this is all in aid of having all the cylinders doing the same work. minimising risk

look into things like coatings for pistons, chambers, and valve faces from the likes of jet-hot and HPC. keeps heat where it is usefull, in the combustion gasses and again helps to reduce the likelyhood of detonation.
caoting the exhaust ports will help to reduce cyl/head temp aswell.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:32 am 
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ReGiE wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
I have serious doubts that an 4.0 can be built to handle 7k rpm (by handle I mean can regularly be revved there without blowing)


Brads car was doing it easily. there are prolly a few other members on here that can say that also. this thing just kept making power. too bad brad never got it tuned right :)

and hyena jases motor is mostly head work. im pretty sure the bottom end was just a standard rebuild with a HV oil pump. and this thing is putting out the same tourques as the XR6 turbro. The head on it is taken to the absolute maximum and he is running the same cam as me :)


Im not saying it wont make 7k rpm, just that it isnt going to be reliable. Even the little work ive done to my bottom end would let it hit 7k - just wont stay there for long. The engine simply isnt designed for rpm. Look at the piston speed - with the long stroke at 7000rpm your approaching the piston speed of a F1 engine on the redline, how long is that going to last?

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:40 am 
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I dont think anyone plans to drive from Sydney to Melbourne at 7000rpm. No harm in using it as your redline if the engine is still creating power and the bottom end is built to suit.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:48 am 
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Waggin wrote:
I dont think anyone plans to drive from Sydney to Melbourne at 7000rpm. No harm in using it as your redline if the engine is still creating power and the bottom end is built to suit.


Of course no problems revving an engine if the bottom end is build for it, but what do you do to a I6 bottom end to build it for 7000rpm (>4500fpm piston speed)? What needs to be done to the valve train? I take it solid lifters are required. What about the chain guides, they are easy enough to break at 6k rpm.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:35 am 
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Gotta agree with you there stock. The 4L engine doesn't rev real well but produces great torque at the lower end. As far as arebuild goes the standard bottom end will be fine. Good bearings, oil pump and balance the lot (right thru from balancer to flexplate/flywheel. Blueprinting just refers to returning parts as close as possible to factory listed specs. When engines are built at the factory they have pretty loose tolerances. Head and cam produce power so all you have to do is decide what head/cam combo you want and build a bottom end that will hang in there!
Bundy Up!

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:32 pm 
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piston speed at 7000rpm is 4561ft/min

the bottom end is easy to build now with all the gear for XR6T engine.
the rods are easy to get the pistons easy to get and there are a number of people spinning the the built BA engine over 7000rpm.

but of coures the are always going to be risks building an engine like, just with any other engine built to same extreme.
there is no point saying just because there is a risk of breaking a chain guide that you shouldn't build the engine. you just have to be prepared to accept that fact one day something might break.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:55 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
piston speed at 7000rpm is 4561ft/min


yep, which is about the same as spinning a windsor to 9200rpm.

tickford_6 wrote:
but of coures the are always going to be risks building an engine like, just with any other engine built to same extreme.
there is no point saying just because there is a risk of breaking a chain guide that you shouldn't build the engine. you just have to be prepared to accept that fact one day something might break.


100% agree. Just trying to work out how long they will last. I would hit my self imposed 6000rpm redline maybe 10 times a week for a couple of years now and the engine shows no signs of out of the ordinary wear and tear. How would have a toughened engine held up to 7000rpm under the same conditions?

I agree with your last comment in that if you build such an engine you have to be prepared for things to break.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 pm 
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i'm sure you'll agree it will come down how often the engine is taken that far.
for a street car you should get a few years out of it with out to much trouble.
99% of driving wil be done and a more reasonable RPM.

But when the time calls for it, it there waiting.
you still be looking at periodic maintanence of the engine though, cheacking things like chain guide wear, valve wear and so on

i was just running a few numbers
at 6000rpm the 4L piston speed reaches 3909ft/min
this is 9ft/min more then a 302w at 7800rpm.

at the stock rev of 5800 the 4L reaches 3779ft/min
at 7550 and 302w will reach 3775ft/min

though i think it should be noted that piston speed alone is not the only factor to take in to consideration

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:31 pm 
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the stock rev limit does not need to be maintained, it can be raised, if the build requires it. I may actually have 2 ECU's running, not at the same time, but interchangable.. one for sensible, road use, where if anything bad should happen the stock ECU is still there for insurance reasons, And maybe a MSII tuned by Dima, cause he is a nut case.

 

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