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NL Concorde engine - correct timing -Vs Fairlane 

 

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 Post subject: NL Concorde engine - correct timing -Vs Fairlane
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:54 am 
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Hi
The NL Concorde has the XR6 engine.

the NL Fairlane doesn't.

When setting the timing, is there a difference?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:50 am 
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No... Base timing on all EF/EL I6's is 0 deg.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:02 pm 
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oh?
Ok thanks.. I appreciate your fast reply.

Let me tell you why I ask.

I bought the Concorde and it was running rough.. Changed leads. plugs. rotor and dissy cap.
Had Fuel injection serviced (off car, ultrasonic)

Had a backyarder mechanic help me with the leads.
He checked the timing with a timing light.

He used a wire to 'disable / bypass the computer. and put a timing light on it.

He was surprised to see it so far advanced at what he said about 16° advanced.

he checked a manual and adjusted it to what he said it should be at 4° advanced.

I took it for a drive it was sluggish as hell and i took it back to him.

He reset it to about 9° advaned at it was much better.

A mate of mine who used to be a head mechanic for a Ford dealer said he shouldn't have touched it. Rarely do they go 'out'.

So. i thought , bugger it i will take it to Ford Service and have them check it properly so that in my own mind it is correct.

$50 charge to 'check & reset timing' they said it was advanced and 'adjusted it back to factory settings'

The car feels the same , just as responsive. Perhaps the idle is slightly higher now (in gear approx 650rpm - neutral approx 800rpm)

So.. I still had doubts.. as to if it is yet correct.

Because .. when i bought the car the backyarder told me 16° is too much.. he took it to 9° and now ford have taken it back to .. what 4°?


I'm confused.. I guess the Diagnostics allow the timing to be corrected WHILST the computer is still active or somehting?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:44 pm 
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Whenever the timing is d**k around with, the ECU has to be put into test mode then wait for base idle mode to hit, then you can change the timing.

If it was done outside of test mode, or before it dropped into base idle mode, then that would explain why they are talking of 16 deg and 4 deg, etc etc. In base idle mode, it should be set to 0 deg.

So if you say it was 16deg, then it would be close to the 0deg in base idle, maybe a tad advanced. If he changed it to 4 deg, it would be horribly retarded, and the car would run like s**t. Even at 9 deg, it will still be retarded.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:57 pm 
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ok , thanks , thats making more sense to me now .

So when he disabled the ECU and set the timing he retarded it.

Just to clarify for my own thinking that I have this right.

The Ford service guys , didnt disable the ECU and it would have shown as advanced.
They reset it accoriding to an ACTIVE ecu , as opposed to disabling it?

Another question if i may?

I have replaced leads. plugs. rotor and dissy cap.
Had Fuel injection serviced (off car, ultrasonic)

and now Ford has reset the timing.

I still get a slight 'miss'. and the idle revs are at 650ish in Drive , and 800 in Neutral.
Should I squeeze a few more revs with the idle adjustment screw so that its closer to 700 - 750rpm in Drive?

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Anyone?
Coz it smooths right out . if, I am sitting at the lights. With a gentle rest on the acc. pedal to bring the revs up to 700+

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:28 pm 
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id be more concerned if i was driving an ef/el that didnt have a slight miss at idle!

set the idle to much higher your going to get sick of standing on the brakes harder at the lights. just remember if you do theres a proper procedure for bumping up the idle too

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:38 am 
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Gaz wrote:
if you do theres a proper procedure for bumping up the idle too


Whats the procedure?

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:59 am 
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arm79 wrote:
No... Base timing on all EF/EL I6's is 0 deg.


mate efs doesnt even use a dizzy! Try doing your research before posting totally incorrect info.
when installing the cam angle sensor on an ef/nf you set the crank to TDC. the ecu works out the advance by itself.

on an el/nl there is a dizzy just like on ea eb ed. The timing to supposed to be 10degrees BTDC. You have to be in diagnostic mode first.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:23 am 
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bluecube wrote:
arm79 wrote:
No... Base timing on all EF/EL I6's is 0 deg.


mate efs doesnt even use a dizzy! Try doing your research before posting totally incorrect info.
when installing the cam angle sensor on an ef/nf you set the crank to TDC. the ecu works out the advance by itself.

on an el/nl there is a dizzy just like on ea eb ed. The timing to supposed to be 10degrees BTDC. You have to be in diagnostic mode first.


ARM knows more about these engines then you think.. so expect an interesting reply :)

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:40 am 
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bluecube wrote:
arm79 wrote:
No... Base timing on all EF/EL I6's is 0 deg.


mate efs doesnt even use a dizzy! Try doing your research before posting totally incorrect info.
when installing the cam angle sensor on an ef/nf you set the crank to TDC. the ecu works out the advance by itself.


No s**t sherlock. I know exactly how the timing on an EF works. I was simply stating that when put into diagnostics mode with a timing light, any EF or EL will show the mark at TDC. And yes, you can alter the timing on an EF. :wink:


bluecube wrote:
on an el/nl there is a dizzy just like on ea eb ed. The timing to supposed to be 10degrees BTDC. You have to be in diagnostic mode first.


No s**t an EL/NL has a dizzy just like a boxcar. But if you think that the base timing for a EL/NL is 10 deg BTDC, you are wrong. Allow me to quote from your totally f**k up and insulting post to me :

bluecube wrote:
Try doing your research before posting totally incorrect info.


Now considering the amount of decent info I put into my first couple of posts, surely you must have realised that I do know what I'm talking about.

And considering the incorrect information you put in your one and only post, I can only say you are a f**k. Boxcars are not the same as EF/EL.

EFFalcon wrote:
ARM knows more about these engines then you think.. so expect an interesting reply


Cheers for the love JW. I started off having a badish day. Being able to vent on this mofo has made me feel a little better. :D
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:14 pm 
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I feel it. Do you feel it?

Sorry guys, didnt mean to start a rumble.

So.. err.. um..

Any other tips for me?

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:22 pm 
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I feel it. :D

Do you have a timing light and tools yourself?
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:24 pm 
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Well I have tools.. but no timing light.

I suppose the Ford Dealer i took it to onTuesday would have put the timing right.. I am jsut trying to eliminate this slight 'miss' i am getting.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:40 pm 
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What colour are the ignition leads? Not the original red Motorcraft ones?
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