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Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?! 

 

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 Post subject: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:44 am 
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Hi guys,

need a bit of advice.

we did a headgasket change on our 96 EL. we started off with a metal headgasket and had problems, after removing and replacing it twice we gave up, oil kept leaking out of the front drivers head bolt area (due lack of copper seal on gasket)

we have now gone back to a graphite one with new bolts. the head went back together really well and the car runs better than ever no leaks and good compression (yay!)

now the problem....

the timing chain cam sproket was tight to put on (took two of us to leaver it), once on it was really tight (ie. no flex at all even with the tensionor adjustor out of the block and still on the ground!

is this normal?

we persisted and put it back togehter and although the car runs now there is a noise comming from the front of the motor which i will best descrive as 'hgih speed friction'

otherwise everything is great. what have we done wrong?

many thanks in advance!
Jason
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:43 am 
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sounds like the timing chain guides are damaged, or the chain is way to tight, be careful, having it too tight can break you AUX gear (dizzy & oil pump) you should not need two people to put the cam gear with chain on it back onto the cam ..

I'd say loosen the timing chain a little bit.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:25 am 
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did u lock up the timing chain tensioner before removing it with the 3mm allen key? sounds like u just pulled the retainer bolt out.
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:02 pm 
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ok sorry you guys need more info.

when we installed the cam (two of us) the entire tensionor adjustor (the one one near the power steering pump was out and on the floor, so without that even in is was that tight, installing the tensionor actually did nothing. it is really really tight.

how can this be? looking at the manual there is nothing to it so i cant figure whats gone wrong.

ps the sound is something along the lines of a high speed whuring noise

thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:21 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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ok so did the tensioner look like this when it was out
Attachment:
Timing1.jpg
Timing1.jpg [ 31.78 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]


second picture shows tensioner locked and ready to be refitted
Attachment:
T.1.jpg
T.1.jpg [ 18.38 KiB | Viewed 52 times ]


third pic shows tensioner unlocked
Attachment:
T.2.jpg
T.2.jpg [ 25.87 KiB | Viewed 43 times ]


after its back in u need to put an allen key into the tensioner and turn anticlockwise to release the lock and it will tension the chain[attachment=0]
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:23 pm 
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Just a quick note --- Easiest way to re - set the tensioner is to put a heap of washers over the small allen key (or a small length of pipe) which can then compress the locking thing and allow the hex screw bit to be turned into position...




From the sounds of it, I would guess (with my acknowledged very limited knowledge) that the chain isn't sitting in the guide properly and you are rubbing the guide to death with the chain. If the chain is caught on the lip of the guide somehow or other it would create more tension as the chain has longer to travel... Unfortunately, if you rev continuously high for a while you would expect something to either fail catastrophically or for the guide to wear down and the chain to snap back into proper position...

Personally, I'd not even turn the engine on and would have pulled the rocker cover off, released the tensioner, given it all a decent wiggle and slap and replaced tensioner properly.

Mind you, I've never put a head back on in my life, but am waiting for a gasket to arrive so I can try.
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:52 pm 
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yeah that is how it looked, remember though the thing that worries me here is that with that tensioner out on the groun, the chain was so tight that we had trouble getting it back on the cam, no slack at all so there was a problem before the tensionor even went in let alone was adjusted
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:29 pm 
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It can only be the guide and chain relationship being wrong (in whatever shape or form). The chain only goes around the crank, the aux shaft and the cam sprockets... And runs through guides (tensioners) and points along the way. It is virtually impossible for the chain to jump sideways off the crank sprocket, the aux sprocket possibly could... Possibly, maybe - doubtful, but possible, maybe?... The guide could had got loose, fallen or aligned itself wrongly and then you've managed to get the cam back on and it's now being held in some awkward position by the chain?

This is where I bow out and leave it up to those who know.... Am watching for any replies with interest.
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:42 pm 
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so u had all the parts in above pictures out on the ground?. sounds like the part with the allen screw and spring setup was still in the block to me. once u pulled the gear off the cam the tensioner would have sprung out to maximum tension, thats why it would have been hard to get it back on again. if u did have it all out, did u lock the tensioner back closed with the allen key before putting it back into the block? and then release it once it was back together again?
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:15 pm 
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that whuring nois is definatly the cam chain being way to tight..
if its not fixed soon your engine may have a catistrophic failure...
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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Here is a pic of my tensioner that failed - right pics is of a new tnesioners
Image

Also pics of the bits of Cam Guides that eneded in my sump
Image

And pic of the Timing Chain Cover - my timing chain ended up using the cover as its guide
Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:42 pm 
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id assume some of you here have heard a loose timing chain, is it very noticable?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:01 pm 
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what happend to the original poster?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Noisy Timing Chain After Head Gasket Change?!
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:31 am 
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Hi again... I am interested in this too...

When I finally got my Trickfraud EL back into the car as an EF I had much the same problem when getting the Wade 1673 cam installation to work. I was left with a noisy timing chain (a whine) and the chain itself was VERY tight.

When I put the tensioner back in it had not "UNLOCKED" itself properly - the clunk or smooch type noise I heard must have been it aligning itself onto the chain guide and NOT the sound of the mechanism unlocking. Therefore, something was keeping a lot of stretch on the chain.

Simple half an hour job (with time for chit chat and coffee along the way) to remove the timing tensioner and re do it to be on the safe side, and when it was pulled out I found it was still in locked position, but wasn't completely compressed so was attempting to stretch the chain.


On another note --- I pulled the head off the old EF 350,000km engine the other week and found the chain guide on passenger side of car had broken off a couple of inches below the bolt that acts as a pivot for it in the front of the head. It was a completely clean break and the guide was still in place (probably just being pulled against the side of the timing cover by the chain). I guess this happened when originally installing the cam and having a couple of lifters blow themselves out the side of the rockers and the guide copped a lot of that tension...

The engine ran about 10,000 like that, no worries...

Image

Anyways, WHAT DID HAPPEN TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER?
Can we get an update as to how it was fixed, or what had failed please?!!
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