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Poor traction in falcons 

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:58 pm 
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as said.. it comes down to tyres.

running falkens, wanli's, most dunlops you will break traction

spend the money, or even get second handies eg, Pirelli 7000, Michelin Predicy, Michelin Primacy, Dunlop Sport (expensive SP editions) other range or Pirelli's .. even Marshalls are good now.

most place will sell u some decent second hand tyres, even with 255s on the rear and crappy tyres and to much power u will still break traction with or without lsd!

cheap rubber also smells and squeals differently............ nto that i know of course!
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:55 pm 
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I've got some cheapy wanli's on the front, but it doesnt matter too much about the front as I hardly push the car hard enough to understeer, and for $110 ea brand new for 235/17s who's complaining!

The dunlop formula W10s were supposedly good tyres (according to the tyre bloke... :roll: ) but apparently not...

I might have a hunt around for some 2nd hand pirellis, I don't really wanna pay $300+ ea for tyres. What model mashells are ok ?

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:22 pm 
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i had some tight treaded low profile tyres on my xr and i constantly spunn my tyres i then hit a pot hole cracked both mags on one side and blew both tyres out, i then purchased a set of EF/EL xr dog tooth mags with a much more aggressive tread they dont wear as well but the traction was improved.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:28 pm 
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traction is fairly indepth, firstly what kinda surface you on, cause goat tracks like most suburban streets are a peice o piss to spin on. Next would be your tyres profile, have you guys ever wondered why drag cars run huge profile tyres?? cause the grip in a straight line but the side wall integrity hinders turning performance and thats why sportier cars that are designed for corners run lower profiles, so its a trade off between the 2 profiles to what you want. next is weight transfer. This is basically controlled by 3 things; springs, sway bars and roll centres. The more weight that you have transferred to a particular wheel, the more traction that tyre provides. When your running fairly stiff springs (kings are one of the stiffest out there) your weight transfer on to the rear tyres is not as great as when your running softer springs during acceleration. Your roll centres and sway bars only control the cars lateral weight transfer, so this is what effects your cornering grip. All shocks do is control the speed that the weight transfer happens, however this is still very important to the overall suspension tuning of the car. And lastly, huge amounts of neg camber on road cars is a load of BS. Most of the top end sports cars only run up to about 3deg neg camber on thier road cars, any more than this and you will actually loose overall traction :wink:

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:16 am 
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fuzion, tyres play a big part, but my mate with a spool in his ea runs s**t tyres and gets awesome traction, i guess the burnout before the run helps though...
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:10 am 
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Jaysen wrote:
traction is fairly indepth, firstly what kinda surface you on, cause goat tracks like most suburban streets are a peice o piss to spin on. Next would be your tyres profile, have you guys ever wondered why drag cars run huge profile tyres?? cause the grip in a straight line but the side wall integrity hinders turning performance and thats why sportier cars that are designed for corners run lower profiles, so its a trade off between the 2 profiles to what you want. next is weight transfer. This is basically controlled by 3 things; springs, sway bars and roll centres. The more weight that you have transferred to a particular wheel, the more traction that tyre provides. When your running fairly stiff springs (kings are one of the stiffest out there) your weight transfer on to the rear tyres is not as great as when your running softer springs during acceleration. Your roll centres and sway bars only control the cars lateral weight transfer, so this is what effects your cornering grip. All shocks do is control the speed that the weight transfer happens, however this is still very important to the overall suspension tuning of the car. And lastly, huge amounts of neg camber on road cars is a load of BS. Most of the top end sports cars only run up to about 3deg neg camber on thier road cars, any more than this and you will actually loose overall traction :wink:


What he said. Profiles are under rated. I run 17's with 235 45. Ideal for a streeter after handeling. 15's with 245x65 would be premo for straight line drags and 18" rims + on a falcon is mainly for show. You will loose handeling. IMO

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:11 am 
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Hmmm, my current tyre profile might be hurting me as well - I'm running 235/40/17s (instead of the usual 45 profile) When I was offered them I though yeah why not, poor mans diff ratio change :P
I guess the air in them makes a difference too for getting off the line, hence why you let them down at the drags

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:17 am 
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as for rims cracking,tyres blowing out on pot holes (a)were these huge a** pot holes u cant avoid? (b)cheap tyre/rim combo? (c) too much weight on rims? my rims are worth about$3500-$4000 brand new a set without rubber tyres cost me a set $1060 tyres last me a good long time i have taken these rims of my old 6 & put them on 2 me v8 within the 14months ive owned tha rims i have only replaced 1 tyre due 2 puncture on inside tyre wall

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:00 am 
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Simple........
Spool the diff, Go to rocket ind get 2 x Mickey thompson Sportsman tyres which are street legal ( Drag slick compound but have grooves )!!!
And if you still have traction probs well............You could always Tub it,90/10 shocks in the rear,softer rear springs+shocks,Drop the a*** lower than the front for better weight transfer..........There is heaps of things that can be done just depends on your preferred driving style. I.E.....Do you mind looseing high speed cornering ability for some straight line traction if so you could go the suspenion way, which makes a huge differance in a straight line!!! Or if you dont want to loose cornering ability id just suggest getting some sort of semi slick compound tyres for the rear, you shouldnt brake traction once they are warmed up!!! The only downside is they dont last very long and are rather expensive.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:36 am 
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SQUEAK wrote:
Simple........
Spool the diff, Go to rocket ind get 2 x Mickey thompson Sportsman tyres which are street legal ( Drag slick compound but have grooves )!!!


I think you nailed it with this being the cheapest solution, although I dont know that Mickey Thompsons come in such low profiles, Ive only seen them on drag stuff and they all had huge tyre walls. Otherwise google and research your a*** off before spending a fortune on a setup that isnt gunna suit your needs. Ivew got a doco that I used when racing RC cars thats all about suspension setup. The theory is the same but its quite long if you want me to send it to ya.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:38 am 
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I don't quite understand why we are complaining about losing traction in the 4L? Bring it on i say...

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:39 am 
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Nah, just get gripe'er tyres; lsd; and take off slightly till u reach about 10-15 km/h, then hammer it.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:47 am 
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Ive got the option of either smoke the buggers :lol: or be an old bastard and keep the traction control on :oops:

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:55 am 
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smokin is always super fun, so thats why Im gunna opt for the more sportier setup at a comprimise of take off traction. Theres nothing like the smell of burning rubber :twisted:

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:26 am 
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I don't know that I can completely agree with tyres being the biggest factor...

My ED XR6 has a LSD and some s*** Dunlop tyres that are on the verge of needing replacing. I've owned this thing since April, and it has only lost traction 3 times. Twice in the wet when I swung it around some corners (after seeing Waggin get his EB VERY sideways in front of me :D )and it lost traction for ~0.5-1sec. Once when I asked Waggin to drive it from my garage up to the shed - apparently he had some fun on the grass (this was when we discovered it definitely had LSD - lol!)

So, I dunno if it's the LSD (I won't give an opinion here), but I will say that my car has no trouble keeping traction with s*** tyres :mrgreen:

 

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