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potential engine build for non turbo... 

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:18 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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c james wrote:
ef_falcon_95 wrote:
Better off building a engine for turbo then when your off you p's drop it in.

A worked n/a engine with high compression may not with well with a turbo if you ever decide to turbo it.

yeh ive thought about that too. with around a year and a half still untill i get of them if i do build a turbo engine im sure it wouldnt really be a daily anymore. i know turbo would be better in the long run for bigger power. also i swear i've seen your falcon come out of tafe in wollongong before?


And how do you only have a year and a half left on your P's arnt you 18???

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:22 pm 
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wild-el wrote:
c james wrote:
ef_falcon_95 wrote:
Better off building a engine for turbo then when your off you p's drop it in.

A worked n/a engine with high compression may not with well with a turbo if you ever decide to turbo it.

yeh ive thought about that too. with around a year and a half still untill i get of them if i do build a turbo engine im sure it wouldnt really be a daily anymore. i know turbo would be better in the long run for bigger power. also i swear i've seen your falcon come out of tafe in wollongong before?


And how do you only have a year and a half left on your P's arnt you 18???

turned 18 back in june. get them when u turn 20..

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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wild-el wrote:
c james wrote:
ef_falcon_95 wrote:
Better off building a engine for turbo then when your off you p's drop it in.

A worked n/a engine with high compression may not with well with a turbo if you ever decide to turbo it.

yeh ive thought about that too. with around a year and a half still untill i get of them if i do build a turbo engine im sure it wouldnt really be a daily anymore. i know turbo would be better in the long run for bigger power. also i swear i've seen your falcon come out of tafe in wollongong before?


And how do you only have a year and a half left on your P's arnt you 18???

18 to get your greens and hes probably almost 19 so makes sense,

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:23 pm 
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skidder wrote:
You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.


Mines done just under 300k and I can still see the hone marks :) But you are dead right, what I meant to say was I wouldn't bore if I didnt have too.


wild-el wrote:
There's a guy on here thatspushing 184 kilawasps at the wheels his names Gazza or it's Gezza it's a white el gli.


Thanks wild-el. I would be stoked to pull that much power.
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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:26 pm 
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yeah i wouldnt be totaly flogging the car all the time, i rarely flog my car now because i dont want to break anything. waste of money trying to flog my car when i can save my bucks to make it stronger then have more fun with it. not really a burnout person i more just like to have the power. yeah i wont be stripping my engine down i will get a 2nd hand doner engine, i need my car as a daily at the moment so the engine would just be in the shed to work on every now and again. turbo or non is the question. like i said i have to wait a fair while to throw the turbo in if i go that way

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:29 pm 
Parts Gopher
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I got put off the idea of turboinbg because 1) I want power now so that means bumping up comp and 2) $$$$!!!! (and/or time, depending on your mechanical aptitude)

For me the cost of turboing this car (including gbox + drivetrain) would be better off put into an already turboed ba - fg

EDIT: Obviously not turboing my gbox etc, as my post may read...but the costs involved in bringing them up to scratch
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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).

yeah im kinda kicking myself for buying a manual, i thought about the more fun of driving it but now im thinking if i want power the first thing to go will probably be the gear box and its a very costly upgrade for a t56, and at the end of the day for good times on the 1/4 mile auto is the way to go,

 

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xr8 snorkel,typhoon lower snorkel,territory intake pipe,20% underdrive kit,pacemaker extractors,high flow cat,xforce exhaust,t56 conversion hd turbo clutch/ flywheel,m86 3.45 lsd,custom tune187.1rwkw as an auto

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:03 pm 
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i guess you need to ask yourself, do you think you will still have the car in 2 years when you get off your p's??
no point spending big if your only going to upgrade in a few years???


skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).


i only changed to auto because the clutches were not holding up for long with the turbo and i was getting sick of forever changing gears in sydney traffic..
not to mention the car is 1/2 a second faster over the 1/4mile with the auto :D ..
the t5 is still good, its sitting in my shed for future use...
it comes down to how hard you drive, if you dump the clutch and flat change alot, the t5 wont last long at all.. imo if you let the engine do the work and treat the t5 with a little respect, it will last a long time even with boost...

as for the engine it has done 1 year supercharged on 12psi and 1 year turbo on 12psi and the head and bottom end is 100% stock, still running healthy...
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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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TROYMAN wrote:
i guess you need to ask yourself, do you think you will still have the car in 2 years when you get off your p's??
no point spending big if your only going to upgrade in a few years???


skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).


i only changed to auto because the clutches were not holding up for long with the turbo and i was getting sick of forever changing gears in sydney traffic..
not to mention the car is 1/2 a second faster over the 1/4mile with the auto :D ..
the t5 is still good, its sitting in my shed for future use...
it comes down to how hard you drive, if you dump the clutch and flat change alot, the t5 wont last long at all.. imo if you let the engine do the work and treat the t5 with a little respect, it will last a long time even with boost...

as for the engine it has done 1 year supercharged on 12psi and 1 year turbo on 12psi and the head and bottom end is 100% stock, still running healthy...


What do you prefer troyman the turbo or the charger?

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:34 pm 
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NSW, Australia

wild-el wrote:
TROYMAN wrote:
i guess you need to ask yourself, do you think you will still have the car in 2 years when you get off your p's??
no point spending big if your only going to upgrade in a few years???


skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).


i only changed to auto because the clutches were not holding up for long with the turbo and i was getting sick of forever changing gears in sydney traffic..
not to mention the car is 1/2 a second faster over the 1/4mile with the auto :D ..
the t5 is still good, its sitting in my shed for future use...
it comes down to how hard you drive, if you dump the clutch and flat change alot, the t5 wont last long at all.. imo if you let the engine do the work and treat the t5 with a little respect, it will last a long time even with boost...

as for the engine it has done 1 year supercharged on 12psi and 1 year turbo on 12psi and the head and bottom end is 100% stock, still running healthy...


What do you prefer troyman the turbo or the charger?


turbo by a long shot... more power and more torque= huge win!
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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:13 am 
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To c james and kiwief, To get the magic 200rwkw figure from a N/A I6 will take alot of dosh and alot of planning. Not to mention you will also need to think of the brakes and suspension too handle that sort of power. Its one thing to go fast its another to be able to stop.

Also if you want that figure a big cam, well engineered head and a good tune can see those figures but be prepared to fork out for it. Dont be discouraged though cause if you want to do it go for it, just make sure you can back yourself all the way, I know and alot of other seasoned fellows on here know that it takes alot of money, time and patience. Also dont forget to ask questions.

Good luck

Cheers Joel

 

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:48 am 
Getting Side Ways
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skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).


hey don't be so harsh on the old t5's hahah they are fine for low boost set ups! Mines holding up fine. Just have to treat it right like troyman said.

 

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EF xr6t
Garrett gt3582r, 6 boost manifold, turbosmart 50mm gate, microtech ltx-12s, eboost, 044, 60lb siemens deka, 3.45 Tru Trac. 333.4rwhp@12psi Tuned by P.I.T.S

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 Post subject: Re: potential engine build for non turbo...
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:55 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 27

Posts: 430

Joined: 21st Jan 2008

Ride: ef XR6t

Location: noosa
QLD, Australia

skidder wrote:
bry40l wrote:
skidder wrote:
Just to clear a few misconceptions...

You might have to get a bore regardless of whether you want one or not; after you strip the engine down you will have to determine whether you can get away with a hone. I daresay on a lot of E series engines that have over 200,000km on them you would need to go 20thou over.

Before you start pulling apart your engine you need to figure out a realistic budget and what you want from your engine; having made the rookie error of pulling down an engine before deciding what direction you want to go I can attest to this.

I would recommend building for N/A - if you seriously plan on putting a turbo on your car at the end of it don't bother rebuilding now, save your money and when the time comes plan your build. The worst mistake you can make is starting a project without the money to see it through to completion (and then you will be left with an engine not as well suited to N/A which you have spent money rebuilding).

I would suggest getting an ACL rebuild kit if you can, bang for buck they are pretty good value (I think last time I checked around $700 for race series which includes pistons/bearings/gaskets). If you are spinning the spanners yourself will get the thing rebuild for a few grand. Anyone telling you you can get a reliable turbo set up for less than $10k is dreaming. Sure you can run it off a standard engine and replace it (and the transmission) with a cheap replacement every 6 months, but it is hardly reliable.

depends how he wants to treat it, troymans bottom end has lasted over a year now with the odd flog down eastern creek and he doesnt seem to have any problems hes also been running a stock t5 box and now a second hand auto for a few months and doesnt seem to have any problems


Valid point. I have also seen a t5 last ages with 300odd rwkw running through it, but 2 t5's within 6 months behind an N/A falcon strip the teeth off third. The ones that last behind blown applications are definately the exceptions to the rule.

If I was spending the money to build a turbo set up I would want to be able to confidently give it some. I would not consider my turbo car reliable unless it had a t56 or tko behind it (if manual). Haha, I barely consider my N/A falcon reliable with a t5 behind it...

edit: whoops didn't read he had changed to auto. Yeah, BTR's can handle the boost a lot better than t5's as long you boost in 1-3. As you say, depends how hard you drive it though (and a lot on how lucky you get with the condition of the box you pick up).


hey don't be so harsh on the old t5's hahah they are fine for low boost set ups! Mines holding up fine. Just have to treat it right like troyman said.

 

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Just Falcon Around.
EF xr6t
Garrett gt3582r, 6 boost manifold, turbosmart 50mm gate, microtech ltx-12s, eboost, 044, 60lb siemens deka, 3.45 Tru Trac. 333.4rwhp@12psi Tuned by P.I.T.S

Build Thread
http://www.fordmods.com/the-garage-f53/ef-turbo-build-t103080.html

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