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Problem on petrol - gutless, but fine on L.P.G. 

 

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 Post subject: Problem on petrol - gutless, but fine on L.P.G.
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:13 pm 
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Tried driving on petrol today and it was very queer. Absolutely gutless. Any upslop in the road and it couldn't get up it, couldn't build up speed, even backfired and stalled at one point. Aswell as that there was a sort of hi pitched noise. The problem seems to have gotten worse and worse. The engine doesn't run happy. Sputters and jerks a bit, and the revs don't flow up like usual, more splutter up.

My cars duel fuel and I mainly drive on L.P.G., but always start on Petrol and have always run Premium Unleaded in it (at the moment it has a tank of BP normal unleaded in it though - but that shouldn't be a problem).

The ignition system is unlikely to be the problem, reason for being able to say that is it runs perfectly on L.P.G., and L.P.G. is more sensitive to the ignition system being set up right. So really the problem has to be with something that is only dealt with by the petrol system - maybe a sensor (I have recenetly replaced the M.A.P. and Oxygen Sensors though) or injectors or fuel delivery system or something. Any ideas?

The fuel filters almost a year old now - but it's probably only done 1,500km's of petrol through it! I have put Injector Cleaner and Petrol Treatment in over the last few months - but not for about 4 weeks now.

I had it in nuetral reving it and it seemed fine, but left it for a while, started it and drove and the problem was there - although I doubt it'd be tansmission as that'd effect L.P.G. aswell wouldn't it?

Gunna try disconnecting the battery in a minute just in case. But anyone got any ideas?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Problem on petrol - gutless, but fine on L.P.G.
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:31 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
Tried driving on petrol today and it was very queer. Absolutely gutless. Any upslop in the road and it couldn't get up it, couldn't build up speed, even backfired and stalled at one point. Aswell as that there was a sort of hi pitched noise. The problem seems to have gotten worse and worse. The engine doesn't run happy. Sputters and jerks a bit, and the revs don't flow up like usual, more splutter up.

My cars duel fuel and I mainly drive on L.P.G., but always start on Petrol and have always run Premium Unleaded in it (at the moment it has a tank of BP normal unleaded in it though - but that shouldn't be a problem).

The ignition system is unlikely to be the problem, reason for being able to say that is it runs perfectly on L.P.G., and L.P.G. is more sensitive to the ignition system being set up right. So really the problem has to be with something that is only dealt with by the petrol system - maybe a sensor (I have recenetly replaced the M.A.P. and Oxygen Sensors though) or injectors or fuel delivery system or something. Any ideas?

The fuel filters almost a year old now - but it's probably only done 1,500km's of petrol through it! I have put Injector Cleaner and Petrol Treatment in over the last few months - but not for about 4 weeks now.

I had it in nuetral reving it and it seemed fine, but left it for a while, started it and drove and the problem was there - although I doubt it'd be tansmission as that'd effect L.P.G. aswell wouldn't it?

Gunna try disconnecting the battery in a minute just in case. But anyone got any ideas?


I'd say you've got a injector problem there, I had very similar experience with my Dual Fuel EA, it was always injectors. Injector cleaners do 2/3 of f**k all. You need to remove them and have them properly cleaned. Cost around $20ea. Or just run it on LPG!

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:35 pm 
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Ok, that hi pitched noise I mentioned is like a mechanical noise, isn't always there when your running on petrol, but most of the time. It seems to be coming from the passengers side of the petrol tank - maybe a busted fuel pump or something?

Took the car out on the highway and at one stage the problem seemed to have gone, but it's back. When I was driving and it was gutless I'd put it into neutral and rev it and it reved fien then - but the noise would still be there.

When I got home I poped the bonnet to disconnect the battery and there was some fine smoke coming off my hi flow cat converter which is only a couple of months old! Now this doesn't mean that it's the problem, it might be something to do with wrong fuel mixtures effecting the cat converter or something?

Injectors may be the problem, but then why is there the hi pitched noise?

Battery is currently disconnected.

It still runs perfect on L.P.G. and revs fine on petrol when not in gear.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:52 pm 
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dodgy fuel pump.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:20 pm 
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Amost certian that it will be the fuel pump, when you pull it out, the filter over the pickup will have deteriated and because your LPG you will always be running near the empty end of the tank picking up all the dirt.
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:28 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
Ok, that hi pitched noise I mentioned is like a mechanical noise, isn't always there when your running on petrol, but most of the time. It seems to be coming from the passengers side of the petrol tank - maybe a busted fuel pump or something?



Sorry, missed the part about the noise. Definately sounds like the pump is screwed. Worth checking the injectors also, some of the s**t from the pump may have fouled them.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:03 pm 
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dont worry about your cat, when i drive a little harder than normal my cat does that and mine is only a 2 month old high flow !
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:23 pm 
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Also check all your air hoses etc. Especially if it backfired... Whenever mine backfires it blows the air intake pipes off the throttle body. Doesn't have to be all the way off, just enough to leak and cause your air-mixtures to be up the s**t. Mine will also run fine on gas if this happens.

PS: Sounds like your rear fuel pump is also rooted!!

PPS: New exhaust components often smoke. (It's the oil they use in manufacturing...) Haha, should have seen the dyno place when I did a run immedietly after fitting extractors!!!

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:51 pm 
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ef302 wrote:
Also check all your air hoses etc. Especially if it backfired... Whenever mine backfires it blows the air intake pipes off the throttle body. Doesn't have to be all the way off, just enough to leak and cause your air-mixtures to be up the s**t. Mine will also run fine on gas if this happens.

PS: Sounds like your rear fuel pump is also rooted!!

PPS: New exhaust components often smoke. (It's the oil they use in manufacturing...) Haha, should have seen the dyno place when I did a run immedietly after fitting extractors!!!

Ahh... good point, if it has backfired then the hose to the MAP sensor will come off at the sensor on the firewall.
Cheers
TW.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:08 am 
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prydey wrote:
dodgy fuel pump.


It's what my Dad just said, for some retarded reason I was thinking the fuel pump was one of those old school mechanical jobbies on the engine block, but that's carbies and that - one of my many stupid moments!

I'll price a new pump at work tomorrow. The cat converter might have been getting burn't out from the car running lean on petrol and getting too much air which I presume would make it run hotter?

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:12 am 
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The post above I actually typeed before I went out tonightm, but forgot to post it!

It's queer though that it doesn't do it when in neutral!?! I'll grab a new petrol pump and filter from work, should fix it. f**k the injectors, I don't run petrol muych at all, so they can stay semi clogged, just so long as tyhey still work! :-)

About the cat converter smoking, it's MONTH OR Three old now, so shouldn';t be smoking any more, but that's the least of my worries, as I think it's smoking only because of the problems with the petrol flow - so I'll ficx that and see. worst case I go back there an d try to claim warrenty or something!

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:19 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
The post above I actually typeed before I went out tonightm, but forgot to post it!

It's queer though that it doesn't do it when in neutral!?! I'll grab a new petrol pump and filter from work, should fix it. f**k the injectors, I don't run petrol muych at all, so they can stay semi clogged, just so long as tyhey still work! :-)

About the cat converter smoking, it's MONTH OR Three old now, so shouldn';t be smoking any more, but that's the least of my worries, as I think it's smoking only because of the problems with the petrol flow - so I'll ficx that and see. worst case I go back there an d try to claim warrenty or something!


Its not strange that it doesn't do it when in neutral. The engine is not under any load.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Problem on petrol - gutless, but fine on L.P.G.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:52 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
Tried driving on petrol today and it was very queer. Absolutely gutless. Any upslop in the road and it couldn't get up it, couldn't build up speed, even backfired and stalled at one point. Aswell as that there was a sort of hi pitched noise. The problem seems to have gotten worse and worse. The engine doesn't run happy. Sputters and jerks a bit, and the revs don't flow up like usual, more splutter up.
My cars duel fuel and I mainly drive on L.P.G., but always start on Petrol and have always run Premium Unleaded in it (at the moment it has a tank of BP normal unleaded in it though - but that shouldn't be a problem)..
Apart from what's already been mentioned, there could be a possibility that the petrol in your tank is going "stale", as you don't use it much - strange as it sounds this is fact. This will cause the same things you describe. Take it from me - the car will idle and rev okay, but drive like a bag of s**t.
twr7cx wrote:
But anyone got any ideas?
Well here's what I'd do:
1. Earth the top right terminal of the diagnosis connector (ensure the fuel selector is set to "petrol", turn on the IGN, and have a listen to the pump while it's operating for any strange sounds. While your at it, flick the switch over to LPG, and see if the pump shuts down. Most LPG installs will do this, but not all, and if this isn't happening with yours, you need to install a disable relay - PM me if you need details. I'd say running the pump continuous whilst in LPG mode isn't very good in prolonging it's life.

2. If all ok, Change the fuel filter

3. If no change, Get your fuel checked, or try to run some of it in another car - this will probably be the hardest bit.

4. If no change, Check injectors

5. If no change, swap fuel pumps.

This is about the best I can think of, as I can only see the fuel pump, injectors, fuel filter, and stale fuel being the likely culprits.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Problem on petrol - gutless, but fine on L.P.G.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:38 am 
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I'll try all that Snap!
The tank of fuel in it is about a week old now only.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers

 

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