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RD's upgrade - AU engine into EBII car 

 

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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:22 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
troyman, your new bracket is a lot nicer looking...is that to suit the EB alt and 3 belt setup or would it be possible to use it with the EF alt and sepentine single belt setup?



it actually suits both eb 3 belt and ef serpentine as the bracket i made bolts to the same spot on the eb bracket aswell as the ef bracket..
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:26 pm 
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I fitted my AU engine today and everything went smoothly, i'm getting the hang of it now.

Previously i had used various methods of slinging the engine, and today i just used a length of seat belt between the engine lifting brackets and clipped the lifting device into that, letting it find it's own position. This kept the motor at just the right angle, i guess ford designed the lifting brackets to do this.

The AU's alloy sump being straight down at the front makes it a tighter fit to get the whole shebang into the engine bay, but patience sees it fit.

I like the look of the alloy rocker cover and alloy bbm. The BA intake should look good beside these.

I had a look at the BA filter today and it's about 25% wider than the EBII filter, plus it's a more convoluted design which probably offers more surface area again.

Jumping back, before i assembled the engine to the trans i replaced the auto pump seal, which i erroneously called an input shaft seal. It was easy to pry the old one out and tap the new one in. I wish i had bought a new o-ring for the input shaft too, but oh well, the old one will have to do. I also replaced the auto filter and gasket, i'm glad i did this too. I noticed the filler tube had a dent in it, so i replaced it with the one from my wreck. That's not all i pulled from my wreck today. Having a wreck is so good.

When fitting the torque converter to the gearbox, i made sure that it was fully home this time, which saw the back of the converter recessed from the front of the bellhousing by about 10mm. It was then a snack to join this to the engine.

There really are a lot of bolts holding the AU engine to the AU bellhousing, about twelve. I had to scratch around and peck and pinch some from here and there to make up the full quota. It gives peace of mind, but seems a strange contrast to the four holding the bellhousing to the auto.

 

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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:36 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I fitted my AU engine today and everything went smoothly, i'm getting the hang of it now.

Previously i had used various methods of slinging the engine, and today i just used a length of seat belt between the engine lifting brackets and clipped the lifting device into that, letting it find it's own position. This kept the motor at just the right angle, i guess ford designed the lifting brackets to do this.

The AU's alloy sump being straight down at the front makes it a tighter fit to get the whole shebang into the engine bay, but patience sees it fit.

I like the look of the alloy rocker cover and alloy bbm. The BA intake should look good beside these.

I had a look at the BA filter today and it's about 25% wider than the EBII filter, plus it's a more convoluted design which probably offers more surface area again.

Jumping back, before i assembled the engine to the trans i replaced the auto pump seal, which i erroneously called an input shaft seal. It was easy to pry the old one out and tap the new one in. I wish i had bought a new o-ring for the input shaft too, but oh well, the old one will have to do. I also replaced the auto filter and gasket, i'm glad i did this too. I noticed the filler tube had a dent in it, so i replaced it with the one from my wreck. That's not all i pulled from my wreck today. Having a wreck is so good.

When fitting the torque converter to the gearbox, i made sure that it was fully home this time, which saw the back of the converter recessed from the front of the bellhousing by about 10mm. It was then a snack to join this to the engine.

There really are a lot of bolts holding the AU engine to the AU bellhousing, about twelve. I had to scratch around and peck and pinch some from here and there to make up the full quota. It gives peace of mind, but seems a strange contrast to the four holding the bellhousing to the auto.


u gotta be careful using the seatbelt webbing for lifting, it has it limits as to how strong it is...I had one break when lifting a V6 commodore engine and trans out...it came crashing down on the radiator support and then the ground...lucky it was just a s**t heap VN, so i did a bit of hammer work and it looked OK afterward....but it was a good lesson

 

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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:10 am 
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gogetta wrote:
u gotta be careful using the seatbelt webbing for lifting, it has it limits as to how strong it is...I had one break when lifting a V6 commodore engine and trans out...it came crashing down on the radiator support and then the ground...lucky it was just a s**t heap VN, so i did a bit of hammer work and it looked OK afterward....but it was a good lesson

I agree.

I have noticed some are tempted to use old sun-damaged belts, plus use knots that overly weaken the belt, plus make the belt too short which increases the tension, plus don't protect it from sharp edges particularly the edges of the lifting brackets themselves. Then they might be jerky with the lifting device putting extra dynamic loads into the mix.

In contrast a new belt loaded in a manner that didn't reduce it's strength would take a static load of more than 1 tonne. Given a falcon six and gearbox is probably about 300kg, there would be a factor of safety of about three, which is normal and satisfactory.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:02 pm 
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I did wiring work and a few other things on the EB today. Most of the work was installing the thermo fans and wiring, but i also put wires through the firewall for the knock sensor and bbm solinoid, and did a few other things.

To wire up the thermo's, i bought an EL wiring harness. This went all the way from the thermo plug, around the battery area, and into the drivers side firewall. I figured i would get everything i needed by doing this. It was suggested to me to remove my EB front wiring and use the entire EL wiring for the front, but since the main EL wiring goes into the drivers side firewall whereas on the EB it splits in two, it was not feasible, plus there were plug differences and other differences along the way. So i unplucked the wires i needed.

I figured i would be able to install the relay block in a similar location to where it is located in the EL, so i set up the wires accordingly. But then i looked into that and realised there isn't really enough room there. Maybe the EL has more room because the front corner is bigger and the lights are different? My BA airbox may not have helped either. So i decided to put the relay block underneath the coolant overflow tank. All i had to do was move two existing relay blocks, only one of which has a relay in it. I could move these down and the thermo relay block fits nicely on top of it. I reckon this location is better than on the passenger side front. So even if it could fit it there, i would still put it under the tank.

I then figured i needed to make up long wires to go from the relay block around the front and to the passenger side for the thermos. But then while i was looking at the thermos another idea arose. I saw that by swapping the thermo motors and rotating them i could make the plug exit from the lower driver's side of the thermos rather than the upper passenger side. Then, wizz bang, i found that i could use the existing EL wiring from the relay block to the thermo's without modification. Indeed the wiring was the perfect length. I don't understand why Ford themselves didn't do it this way. The wiring is now very neat, very short (less voltage drop) and almost all covered over.

Another modification i did early in the process was change the power lines (yellow) from joining into one wire, to being two lines all the way. I did this to reduce voltage drop. This meant i needed to decide how to reconfigure the fuse. There was originally one 60A fuse, which was configured such that the sum of the power draw from both fans could not exceed 60A. I decided to put two 40A fuses into the two lines i created. To do this i cut down the fuse block i got with my EL harness into two fuse sections, and this now resides under my coolant overflow bottle, near the relay block.

I now needed to establish power supply to the system. I couldn't see any obvious locations where i could easily tap into the existing system, and i didn't want to modify it. I also noticed that the EL alternator power wire was thicker than the EB one, this is understandable since the EL alternator is larger, plus the EL has thermos as standard. I could have upgraded my EB alternator power wire, but i figured it might be okay if i established a second power wire for the thermo's. Since the EL power wire was still part of my wiring, i just taped that alongside the EB one. When i get an AU alternator i will just bolt them both to the alternator.

I found three trigger wires going from the thermo relay block into the EL cabin. One is red with a green stripe, one is blue with a white stripe, and one is blue with no stripe. They also have dots on them. Onto these i have connected three wires with ecu pins on the ends. Now it's time to find out which pins they need to connect to on my EL ECU.

When i join wires i do it the strongest and most failsafe way i know. I first strip about 35 to 45mm of the plastic shielding from the ends, the thicker the wire the more i strip. Then i twirl the ends to reduce fraying. Then i cross them over each other, then fold one of the wires around the back - all the way through 360deg - until it's back where it started. Then i twist them together, and fold them alongside the main wires. I solder the join, and tape-over using at least three layers of tape. Even without soldering this method will not pull apart, and will usually provide reasonable conductivity.

My AU knock sensor plug has two wires, one yellow, and the other yellow with a red stripe. My wreck EB had wires of this colour with ECU pins on the ends, so i connected them.

My bbm solinoid has two wires, one thick red (power), the other green with a red stripe (from memory). My wreck EB had thick red wires with ECU plugs on the ends, and they were joined onto more red wires here and there. After some cutting i ended up with two pin ends that joined into one wire, then later branched into three. This gave plenty of power, plus provision for more access in future in case i want it.

When i was ready to put all these wires through the firewall, i got a piece of high tensile fencing wire, high tensile is good because it doesn't bend easily or stay bent. After wiggling the existing ecu wires to the side i could see a fragment of daylight in the engine bay. I wondered if i should remove more of the dash, i wondered about the left heater duct, so i tried to remove the one on my wreck, but i needed to remove something else to get that out, so i gave up. I then poked the wire, from the engine bay, through the firewall, and into the cabin. It didn't go all the way through but i could see it from inside the cabin, and pulled it through. Having established that, i then taped each of the ECU pin ended wires to this fencing wire in a staggered fashion, so only one was moving through the firewall at any one time. I managed to get the lot through in one go with some wiggling. Then i removed the tape and retracted the fencing wire.

If anyone can rattle off the ECU pin numbers these wires need to connect to that could save me some research.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:40 pm 
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I've also made some minor refinements to my list at the start of this thread.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:45 pm 
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good info...ill have to keep it mind when i do mine

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:08 pm 
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I've done some research and come up with the following:

Thermo Fans
pin 53 electric fan 1 output, 12v relay 1 off, 0v relay 1 on
pin 33 electric fan 2 output, 12v relay 2 & 3 off, 0v relay 2 & 3 on
pin 10 a/c clutch on, 12v a/c on, 0v a/c off
pin 41 a/c compressor, 12v engaged, 0v off
pin 44 blower fan speed, high speed 12v, off 0v
pin 54 a/c relay, 0v a/c on, 12v a/c off
WHICH A/C PIN IF ANY IS RELEVANT TO THE THERMOS?

Knock Sensor
pin 23 knock sensor, +3v engine running WHAT COLOUR WIRE IS THIS?
WHAT PIN DOES THE OTHER WIRE GO TO?
CAN AN AU SENSOR BE USED?

BBM Release Solinoid
pin 15 broadband manifold, green wire, <3800rpm 0v, >3800rpm 12v
pin 37 ignition power, red wire, 12v with ignition on
pin 57 ignition power, red wire, 12v with ignition on

Smartlock Bypass Module:
pin 4 smartlock immobilisation signal, 0v-12v bus signal

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:36 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Knock Sensor
pin 23 knock sensor, +3v engine running WHAT COLOUR WIRE IS THIS?
WHAT PIN DOES THE OTHER WIRE GO TO?
CAN AN AU SENSOR BE USED?

I've done some more work on this and i'm hoping it is finished now.

I am still assuming that an AU knock sensor is compatible with an EL ECU. Please advise if this is wrong.

The wires coming out of the knock sensor are red and white. I decided to assume red is ignition power (12v ignition on, 0v ignition off). Thus the white wire goes to pin 23. Please advise if this is wrong.

Confusingly, the wires on the plug that plugs into the knock sensor are yellow, and yellow with a red stripe. The yellow one connects to the white wire, and the yellow one with the red stripe connects to the red wire. Therefore in the cabin the yellow wire goes to pin 23, and the yellow with red stripe needs to be spliced into the red wire coming out of pin 37 or 57.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:41 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
There was originally one 60A fuse, which was configured such that the sum of the power draw from both fans could not exceed 60A. I decided to put two 40A fuses into the two lines i created.

I decided to replace the two 40A fuses i put in yesterday with two 30A fuses, that way the maximum possible draw is the same as factory.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:56 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Thermo Fans
pin 53 electric fan 1 output, 12v relay 1 off, 0v relay 1 on
pin 33 electric fan 2 output, 12v relay 2 & 3 off, 0v relay 2 & 3 on
pin 10 a/c clutch on, 12v a/c on, 0v a/c off
pin 41 a/c compressor, 12v engaged, 0v off
pin 44 blower fan speed, high speed 12v, off 0v
pin 54 a/c relay, 0v a/c on, 12v a/c off
WHICH A/C PIN IF ANY IS RELEVANT TO THE THERMOS?

I'm still stuck with this.

1. One problem is i don't understand why the tech doco says there is 12v when the relays are off, and 0v when they are on? I thought it should be the other way around? I thought when the trigger wire develops 12v the relay switches on and sends 12v to the fan(s)?

2. Looking at a Davies Craig wiring diagram, it uses the a/c clutch as a trigger for one of the relays, so that one of the fans comes on. In the ECU department that would be pin 10 (a/c clutch on: 12v engaged, 0v disengaged). Does that mean i should bridge the wire coming out of pin 10 (assuming there is one) and the wire coming out of pin 53 (electric fan output 1: 12v relay 1 off, 0v relay 1 on)?

3. There are thin red wires with green stripes coming out of each of the relay trigger sections. Being the same i assume they aren't the ECU trigger wires and therefore should be earths? But maybe they are power supply and the ECU trigger wires just control the power?

I think i've gone as far as i can go using tech doco information. Can anyone post up an EL thermo wiring diagram?

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:17 pm 
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I can't find an EL thermo fan wiring diagram via google. I'm also a long way away from an auto shop where i could buy a manual. Any help would be appreciated.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:57 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Thermo Fans
pin 53 electric fan 1 output, 12v relay 1 off, 0v relay 1 on
pin 33 electric fan 2 output, 12v relay 2 & 3 off, 0v relay 2 & 3 on
pin 10 a/c clutch on, 12v a/c on, 0v a/c off
pin 41 a/c compressor, 12v engaged, 0v off
pin 44 blower fan speed, high speed 12v, off 0v
pin 54 a/c relay, 0v a/c on, 12v a/c off
WHICH A/C PIN IF ANY IS RELEVANT TO THE THERMOS?

I'm still stuck with this.

1. One problem is i don't understand why the tech doco says there is 12v when the relays are off, and 0v when they are on? I thought it should be the other way around? I thought when the trigger wire develops 12v the relay switches on and sends 12v to the fan(s)?

2. Looking at a Davies Craig wiring diagram, it uses the a/c clutch as a trigger for one of the relays, so that one of the fans comes on. In the ECU department that would be pin 10 (a/c clutch on: 12v engaged, 0v disengaged). Does that mean i should bridge the wire coming out of pin 10 (assuming there is one) and the wire coming out of pin 53 (electric fan output 1: 12v relay 1 off, 0v relay 1 on)?

3. There are thin red wires with green stripes coming out of each of the relay trigger sections. Being the same i assume they aren't the ECU trigger wires and therefore should be earths? But maybe they are power supply and the ECU trigger wires just control the power?

I think i've gone as far as i can go using tech doco information. Can anyone post up an EL thermo wiring diagram?


All I can say is that I have tried to get the EL ECU to run the fans, and failed. I am happy using the Davies Craig Setup.

I hope you are more successful. This may help.

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BenJ

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Thanks heaps Benj. I guess i could just work on duplicating the wiring, but i'm hoping to understand it first, and then it should be easier to do the wiring. I thought this was known to have been done before.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:27 pm 
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I think i'm going to get my head around this. But what is the "Auto TX fuse"? What does it represent? A fused earth? A fused power supply? - if so, a constant power supply, or ignition only?

 

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