Fordmods Logo

Really Bad Idle - Possible Cam Timing Problem 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Really Bad Idle - Possible Cam Timing Problem
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:21 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

Quick question... Hopefully quick answer. And its for an EL XR engine.

During a cam install, if say the cam sproket has jumped a tooth, what would happen to the idle quality.

I think (luckily) the cam has retarded, so there is no valves meeting pistions. If it had advanced one tooth, im guessing we would have heard some nasty noises.

The idle is quite violent. It will idle, but feels like 1 or 2 cylinders is not working correctly. Spark, leads, plugs, TFI, coil, fuel, injectors, etc, etc are working correctly. When accelerating, you can feel a little stutter through the engine until about 1800rpm, and over that the car runs as per normal.

Its currently using about 20l/100km as an average. Vaccum level seems a little low, with 15 to 17inMg at idle. And the pointer on the gauge vibrates up and down on the same spot.

I'm hoping someone with some more brains than me can tell me if there problems I'm having a symptomatic of wrong cam timing, without having to pull timing covers off to check everything.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:15 pm 
NSW Cruise Moderator
Offline
User avatar

Age: 39

Posts: 7331

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 12 images

Ride: TE50

Location: ɹǝpun uʍop
NSW, Australia

what cam did you put in?

 

_________________

Image

I have a car.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:36 pm 
Tyre Shredder
Offline
User avatar

Age: 37

Posts: 362

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: EL Ghia

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Thanks for starting this thread ARM

We put in a wade 1004, but when we couldn't get the car to idle, we pulled the cam out. Now it's back to stock cam but still with the idle problems.

 

_________________

Two hands and one mouth. Now that's a drinnking problem!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:40 pm 
Technical Contributor
Offline

Age: 40

Posts: 1032

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Ride: Shockwave BA XR6

Power: 152 rwkw

Location: Caroline Springs
VIC, Australia

Matt and Adrian i would be interested in finding
out what the problem is as well

im thinking that maybe it has jumped a tooth
on the dizzy sensor and it is retarded
have you checked to see if the timing marks on the balancer line up with what the dizzy is telling you in regards to TDC


let us know if you want a hand
(as i feel bad if my 1004 was the cause of all this stress)

Last edited by Brett 4777 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:11 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

My idle problems were solved with a Tickford/XR6ECU.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:52 am 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

Brett 4777 wrote:
Matt and Adrian i would be interested in finding
out what the problem is as well

im thinking that maybe it has jumped a tooth
on the dizzy sensor and it is retarded
have you checked to see if the timing marks on the balancer line up with what the dizzy is telling you in regards to TDC


let us know if you want a hand
(as i feel bad if my 1004 was the cause of all this stress)


We checked the timing a few times the other day, and it can be adjusted perfectly onto TDC. So it seems the dizzy timing is OK.

I was thinking it dropped a tooth from the crank sprocket. Maybe the lower chain guide is worn or missing and when we took the chain off, it fell off the teeth.

We've done ECU code tests, nothing. Manually checked a number of sensors, and still nothing. Changed ECU's, still the same.

We know the number 6 cylinder may have slighly less compression that the rest, but I cant see that slight difference is enough to cause what we are getting.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:27 am 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 1000491

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 2 images

Ride: AUXR6 HP With Ducati SupA Bike!

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

depends on what way it jumped could have advanced teh timing as well...
only 1 way to check
dial guage down # 1 cylinder with the rcoker cover off

 

_________________

RIP SCOTT

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:27 am 
Tyre Shredder
Offline
User avatar

Age: 37

Posts: 362

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: EL Ghia

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Took the timing cover off on the weekend and retimed the engine.

Still no good. Anybody got any other ideas?

 

_________________

Two hands and one mouth. Now that's a drinnking problem!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 37

Posts: 651

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: falcon V8

Power: 213 rwkw

Location: clayton
VIC, Australia

How is it idleing badly? stalling all the time or just hunting constaly?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:05 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 1000491

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 2 images

Ride: AUXR6 HP With Ducati SupA Bike!

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

i am presuming you took the shims put of the lifters once u removed the wade cam?

a bunrt valve maybe? stretched timing chain?

 

_________________

RIP SCOTT

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:27 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

Disco Frank wrote:
i am presuming you took the shims put of the lifters once u removed the wade cam?

a bunrt valve maybe? stretched timing chain?


All the shims were removed and double checked that there werent any left in the rockers.

New timing chain as of Saturday.

I cant see how a valve is burnt. It may be possible, but the car was working perfectly well before the cam change a few weeks ago. If there was something wrong then, it would be understandable.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:32 pm 
Technical Contributor
Offline
User avatar

Age: 53

Posts: 5589

Joined: 14th Jan 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

I know you've said you have checked all the sensors - but is the vaccy hose on properly on the MAP sensor - if it's off, it can cause very rough idle (if it idles at all), and like a missing at mid range throttle. Pretty easy to leave off and not notice, as it's right up on the firewall next to no 6 inlet runner. At least if it's a bum steer, you've only wasted 2 mins checking it. :D

 

_________________

96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:36 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

snap0964 wrote:
I know you've said you have checked all the sensors - but is the vaccy hose on properly on the MAP sensor - if it's off, it can cause very rough idle (if it idles at all), and like a missing at mid range throttle. Pretty easy to leave off and not notice, as it's right up on the firewall next to no 6 inlet runner. At least if it's a bum steer, you've only wasted 2 mins checking it. :D


Checked the map sensor vaccum tube a couple of times, and swapped the map sensor off my car onto fairmontman's, and still no go.

Map sensor was the first thing I thought of.

Anything else in your mind. Keep the ideas rolling... :D
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:28 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 1000491

Joined: 6th Nov 2004

Gallery: 2 images

Ride: AUXR6 HP With Ducati SupA Bike!

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

cam angle sensor?

have u removed the dizzy and retimed it that way?
bad coil wiring?

 

_________________

RIP SCOTT

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:52 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

Disco Frank wrote:
cam angle sensor?

have u removed the dizzy and retimed it that way?
bad coil wiring?


Its an EL, so no cam sensor.

Check dizzy with a timing light once timing gear was correcly set, and it was good as well.

Haven't tried a coil though. Tried the TFI as part of the last attempts, but neglected the coil. One more thing to check. :D
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:32 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names