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Two quick ignition timing questions 

 

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 Post subject: Two quick ignition timing questions
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Gday everyone, quick question:

The ignition timing, on the EL falcons, im told the computer controls the ignition timing to a small degree of the distributor, but the distributor does the 'base-line' setting.

Another way to explain it might be that the distributor sets the timing and the ecu controls the timing within a few degrees of that.

1. Is it worth adjusting the timing on the distributor or does the ecu adjust it back to where it came from?

2. How do you get to the dizzy without pulling out the entire air intake, intake manifold etc. My falcon is on gas, so its quite crowded under the hood.

Thanks in advance
Matt

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:57 pm 
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The Dizzy is set to a base. Any adjustments past that and the ECU will reverse them.

So dont bother playing with it :)

Pulling the Dizzy out is hard work. Its easiest to remove the cap and anything thats easy to get out of the way and you may be able to pull it out.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:43 pm 
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thanks :)
So your not able to make any advancements to run better on lpg?
Damn

Matt

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:53 pm 
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You could wire in a LPG ECU I think its possable.
What GAS system are you running ?
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:29 pm 
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garsiph wrote:
The Dizzy is set to a base. Any adjustments past that and the ECU will reverse them.

So dont bother playing with it :)

Pulling the Dizzy out is hard work. Its easiest to remove the cap and anything thats easy to get out of the way and you may be able to pull it out.




NO

the dizzy is set at a base and ECU controls the timming.
You set dizzy to 10 degrees base and the ECU uses that as its reference point for its timing map. if you change the base timming the ecu doesn't know.
if you set it at 12 the ecu will use that as the base line and all timing changes the ecu makes will be 2 degrees advanced.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:15 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
garsiph wrote:
The Dizzy is set to a base. Any adjustments past that and the ECU will reverse them.

So dont bother playing with it :)

Pulling the Dizzy out is hard work. Its easiest to remove the cap and anything thats easy to get out of the way and you may be able to pull it out.




NO

the dizzy is set at a base and ECU controls the timming.
You set dizzy to 10 degrees base and the ECU uses that as its reference point for its timing map. if you change the base timming the ecu doesn't know.
if you set it at 12 the ecu will use that as the base line and all timing changes the ecu makes will be 2 degrees advanced.


We are talking about an EL yes? If so the ignition timing in diagnostic mode is set to zero +/- 2 deg. The ecu will then adjust timing with information from the knock sensor up to 4500rmp. The setting of the base timing on EL is different from ED and before. AFter engine is started in diagnostic mode the revs will raise to approx 1500rpm then come down and settle (ED is set from now), after the engine almost stalls thats when you have a window of approx 1 min to set the timing as stated above.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:19 am 
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garsiph i have an impco system.
so i have to make the adjustment after the car has been started in diagnostic mode? -no? That sounds a bit unreasonable.

It seems like an awful amount of work, i might consult a ford mechanic, although they probably dont know anymore ;)

Any more thoughts?

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:29 pm 
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The timing has to be set in diagnotic mode (bridge the 2 left top and bottom pins in socket located in fuse panel) simply start the car and follow procedure that i stated earlier. I really is quite simple.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:14 am 
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Great thanks, one question though, its not clear to me exactly what you do to alter the timing, how do you advance it / retard it?

Or by following that procedure it is done automatically?

Cheers mate, i really appreciate your input.

Im releasing a massive doco on mods, mostly for fuel economy, give me a few weeks once i get my steam injection finalised :)

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:13 am 
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garsiph wrote:
Pulling the Dizzy out is hard work. Its easiest to remove the cap and anything thats easy to get out of the way and you may be able to pull it out.


Dizzy is extremely easy to remove.

1. Remove entire airbox
2. Unplug TFI
3. Take dizzy cap off
4. Remove rotor button
5. Remove cap base
6. Unbolt dizzy clamp
7. Pull dizzy up and feed it out where the airbox was

Installation is opposite of removal, just remembering to line up the oil pump drive properly and check/adjust the timing afterwards.

Easily done in less than 30 mins.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:14 am 
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Cool thanks mate :)

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Quick question as i am going over this right at the moment, do the two pins in the diagnostic connector need to be bridged while the car is started and then they can be taken off or do they need to be connected the whole time?

Cheers
Matt

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Advancing Base Ign Timing on El falcon

1) Bridge the far left (top and bottom pins on diagnostic plug)

2) Start the Car

3) Engine will rev up to about 1300-1500rpm then settle back too idle. NOW WAIT APPROX 2MINUTES until the engine idles stumble and now you have another 2mins to set the timing.

4) Connect a timing light to the battery and put the inductive pickup on lead1. Now first check the base ign timing is set at +-2degrees (mark on pulley is aligned with timing cover notch)

5) Undo(loosen) the dizzy bolt(14mm) from bracket and turn the dizzy anti-clockwise to advance. A long extension bar comes in handy to loosen off the 14mm bolt as you just put down between the inlet manifold runners and rocker cover.

Also I wouldn't go any further then a couple of degrees advance.

6) When happy with timing, tighten 14mm bolt and turn engine off. Now remove the bridge between pins.

Cheers..........

 

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Last edited by EL__Fairmont on Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:02 pm 
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thanks alot mate, appreciate it!

Matt

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:38 am 
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"Advancing the static ignition setting without also modifying the advance curve to reduce the rate of advance is incorrect and will promote abnormal combustion."

Altering the static ignition timing to suit lpg is not the correct way about it, lpg needs an ignition advance greater than petrol at idle and an ignition advance less than petrol at high rpm!!

 

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