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V6 vs i6 

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:09 pm 
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Ford used a V4 in the early Transit vans in the late 60's early 70's. I think they were 2.0lt, but not sure. The V6 in a Magna/380 are 60 degree V's, so are nicely balanced, VW have a 15 degree V6 that uses 1 cyl head and DOHC. The Audi inline 5 cyl is very smooth, Volvo had a 5 cyl, and the Ford Focus with the sports model has a turbo'd 5 cyl.
As for head gasket probs on I6, that comes back to ridgidity of the engine block, and people not changing coolant, and too soft or too brittle, head bolts.
A 90 degree V6 is a wrong engine design, requiring offset crankpins, wierd counter weights, etc.... A flat 6 is better balanced, as used in Porche's and now Subaru. The Tucker had a flat 6.
A V10 engine is also smooth. I think the Chevy V8's have an angle less than 90 degrees, making them a little smoother than 90 degree V8's.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:17 pm 
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I always thought the ford head gasket problems came down to the fact the head is alloy and the block is cast iron, the two materials expand and contract and different rates causing un-even wear which eventually leads to the breaking down of the head gasket.

If both materials were the same it would be alot more uniform and it wouldnt be so bad, someone correct me if im wrong...

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:46 pm 
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...Dunkly wrote:
I always thought the ford head gasket problems came down to the fact the head is alloy and the block is cast iron, the two materials expand and contract and different rates causing un-even wear which eventually leads to the breaking down of the head gasket.

If both materials were the same it would be alot more uniform and it wouldnt be so bad, someone correct me if im wrong...


Alloy heads & alloy blocks are nothing new, been around for about 80 yrs.
Yes, the different metals have different expansion rates. Most of the probs I have seen with the Ford I6, has been lack of coolant changes, not running the correct mixture of coolant to water ratio, not fixing leaks so as to fill up with water to point of total dilution, not running properly on LPG ( saw broken head bolts ), the head bolts being too soft, or too brittle. I haven't had any probs with my 88EA. When the w/pump started leaking, I fixed it, and changed the coolant at the same time.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:02 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
68stang wrote:
stockstandard wrote:
Not really.

It comes down to packaging. An inline 6 is the best configuration for an engine and is the most naturally balanced. V6's and V8's compramise natural balance to make a more compact engine to fit into smaller engine bays.

The head gasket issues are not caused by the size/length of the head either.


What about fuel economy? In a same capacity engine in the same car for example would it make a difference? I would also imaging that v6's would be more expensive to maintain.


I can't think of any cars that come with the option of V6 or I6, so that you can compare them...
There's also a lot more to fuel efficency than the engine, such as gearbox, diff ratios, vehicle weight (engine weight would effect that to). Guess it also depends if your doing a fuel efficency test (i.e. engine set up in a lab) or a real world test, actually in the car being driven...
I would believe the I6 would be more fuel efficent, prolly not much in it, reason for saying this is if the engine is smoother and reving smoother etc., it's not having to work as hard to get the same power output, and so would assume it to therefor be using less fuel when achieving the same output.


i meant if you were to drop a v6 into an EF sort of thing.
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:07 pm 
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What one would you use. Most of them are for Front wheel drive cars.
One of BMW's thoughts are that " the wheels that drive the car, shouldn't steer the car", or vice versa, so you won't find a BMW sedan/wagon that is front wheel drive.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:29 pm 
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cjh wrote:
What one would you use. Most of them are for Front wheel drive cars.
One of BMW's thoughts are that " the wheels that drive the car, shouldn't steer the car", or vice versa, so you won't find a BMW sedan/wagon that is front wheel drive.


The v6's in commodores are real wheel drive arnt they?
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:38 pm 
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cjh wrote:
One of BMW's thoughts are that " the wheels that drive the car, shouldn't steer the car", or vice versa


So your f**k if you have AWD

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:00 pm 
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BMW made the fwd mini...

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:20 pm 
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68stang wrote:

The v6's in commodores are real wheel drive arnt they?



They are, and they're the V90, ruff as guts, torque-less piece of s**t motor, lol. The Bewicks of the VN/VP were an ok motor, from a V6 POV, but the ecotechs are a piece of crap. I think the only advantage a commadore V6 has over our mighty I6 ford motors is the inlet manifold and air intake. Seem to have bigger, better flow but I could be mistaken.

A friend of mine has a VP, the old Bewick V6. He likes to crow on about how tuff it is, especially now he can beat me (mind you, my car's stock and it took him a sports exhaust and removing the restrictor plate in his throttle body to even catch me!) It jumps off the line better than me, I catch back up over 85 or so, but if we're goin up hill its all me. Damn POS commo cant pull or tow for s**t.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 pm 
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fnp wrote:
BMW made the fwd mini...


BMW owns the rights to the Mini concept and all that. I'm talking about 3,5,6,7&8 series BMW's. all are rear wheel drive.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:36 pm 
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cjh wrote:
fnp wrote:
BMW made the fwd mini...


BMW owns the rights to the Mini concept and all that. I'm talking about 3,5,6,7&8 series BMW's. all are rear wheel drive.


I tend to think that part of that is because rear wheel drive along with double head lamps, inline sixes and the Hoffmeister (sp?) kink is such a strong part of BMW's brand identity. My point was kind of that BMW has the technical expertise to make a good handling fwd car.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:39 pm 
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From memory 90 degrees is best for a V8, 60 degrees for a V6.

The 3.8 commodore V6 wasn't desgined to be a 6 cylinder, it's just a Buick V8 minus 2 cylinders, hence the 90 degree angle. The 3.8 commodore motors weren't anything to write home about, those cars only go hard because they're so light and have favourable gearing (auto VS auto). VT-onwards were much heavier and more line-ball with the falcon.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Thats it, on a flat road drag, weight and ratio's are the difference. Like I said, if we;re going up hill I smash my VP driving friend. Altho, the VS auto is a POS compared to the VP1's, as far as I know.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:05 pm 
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haggis wrote:
From memory 90 degrees is best for a V8, 60 degrees for a V6.

The 3.8 commodore V6 wasn't desgined to be a 6 cylinder, it's just a Buick V8 minus 2 cylinders, hence the 90 degree angle. The 3.8 commodore motors weren't anything to write home about, those cars only go hard because they're so light and have favourable gearing (auto VS auto). VT-onwards were much heavier and more line-ball with the falcon.


Henry Ford didn't like I6's. Not sure the reason, but only had 4's & V8's for a long time. He was the first to have a fast production turn out for the V8's.
Cadillac & La Salle had V16 and V12's for a while ( at least from 1935 till 1940). They were both narrow angle blocks to the point that the V16 had all of the exhaust and inlet stuff on the outside.
The V12 was 368 cubes and the V16 was 452 cubes.
These engines were OHV and the V was about 45dgs.
They were also updraught carby's.

 

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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:13 pm 
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There was a mob called Crosley. They made an inline 4 cyl, that didn't have a removeable cyl head, and an OHC run by shafts and bevel gears, like a Ducati m/bike. This was from 1946 to 51 (at least).
There was a time that Ford were thinking of doing this, was only about when the AUIII was out. The head being part of the block.

 

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