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Valve Springs In an AU 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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only way is to test the springs at the installed height to get valve seat load,then compress them to max. lift and see wat the load is,then shim or replace them with new ones.and you have to do every spring-sort out intake and exhaust in the batch.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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xcabbi wrote:
Too stiff will rob power and cause excess wear. And on an old school flat tappet cam, really stiff will snap the lobes clean off the cam.

Like I said racer, beware the interwebbs there's a lot of s**t floating around.

By the way you mentioned somewhere that you have done a cam change? Did you at lease get a good look at the valve springs?


Yeah i seen the springs, they all look good, but there is a dude on here(cant remember his name) sujest i serch online for my answers...i maintain the web is bull s**t and full of liars or posers(not the FORD MODDERS of course)but in general! Any way because of this i get mislead, so i ask questions like this, im not a mechanic! im learning but im not one, i just wanna do my car up the best i can so i search here for answers with people i trust, it worked out because if i didnt ask i would have wasted $180+ on double valve springs... :roll:
A shop here also said if i changed my springs it would give me more power, i explaind my cam(they never heard of wade) i read out my specs, i told them about my car, i also said Wade recomended standards valve springs are ok, and they disagreed and said get some crap i never heard of, it will give my car more power they recon!!...a** PLUGS!
Thanks for ya help to Cabbie i no i give ya the s**t s

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:03 am 
Getting Side Ways
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What I meant was did you get a good look at the profile of the springs so you can see that they are a Beehive shape. I'll try and get a pic of an EF valve spring and AU spring side by side so you can see the difference.

If wade say that stock springs are fine then they are fine.

As for the interwebbs, even forums like fordmods are littered by people who act like experts but have never pulled the rocker cover off their car. If in doubt, always check with the parts manufacturer as to their recommended fitting instructions.
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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah there behive shaped like an upside down cone! Infact under the rocker was extreamly clean no marks, abrasians, or oil clumps/resin, very nice looking.

 

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Now, I've got a message for all the other drivers out there. If you smell a delicious, crispy smell after the race, it's not your tailpipe. It's just a little of Shake...and Bake!
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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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xcabbi wrote:
ford-racer46 wrote:
....does it sammy?? I was gonna change springs because i thought there was better options, and i guess ill change the rest either instead or aswell people say crow double springs are better all round!!


Double springs don't fit on Au heads without considerable machining. AU's run progressive rate beehive springs whilst E series run straight linear springs.

And be careful cause you don't want to over-spring your valve train. Yes it is better to go stiffer than softer but you don't want to go overkill, cause essentially you will over "kill" your valve train.
If I was you I'd ask wade themselves for any recommendations.
Having said that I have a spreadsheet I knocked up a few years ago which determines the correct valve spring stiffness for any given cam on a sidevalve engine. If you can give me some specs on your rocker geometry (mass, end to centre distances, mass moment of inertia of your rocker) as well as your valve spring stiffness for a range of lifts as well as the mass of the valve spring, and finally a lift plot of your cam (lobe lift in 2.5 degree increments) then I could modify it for OHV applications.


Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:59 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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GeZza200 wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
ford-racer46 wrote:
....does it sammy?? I was gonna change springs because i thought there was better options, and i guess ill change the rest either instead or aswell people say crow double springs are better all round!!


Double springs don't fit on Au heads without considerable machining. AU's run progressive rate beehive springs whilst E series run straight linear springs.

And be careful cause you don't want to over-spring your valve train. Yes it is better to go stiffer than softer but you don't want to go overkill, cause essentially you will over "kill" your valve train.
If I was you I'd ask wade themselves for any recommendations.
Having said that I have a spreadsheet I knocked up a few years ago which determines the correct valve spring stiffness for any given cam on a sidevalve engine. If you can give me some specs on your rocker geometry (mass, end to centre distances, mass moment of inertia of your rocker) as well as your valve spring stiffness for a range of lifts as well as the mass of the valve spring, and finally a lift plot of your cam (lobe lift in 2.5 degree increments) then I could modify it for OHV applications.


Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set

Is there an advantage?

 

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Now, I've got a message for all the other drivers out there. If you smell a delicious, crispy smell after the race, it's not your tailpipe. It's just a little of Shake...and Bake!
SHAKE AND BAKE

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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ford-racer46 wrote:
GeZza200 wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
ford-racer46 wrote:
....does it sammy?? I was gonna change springs because i thought there was better options, and i guess ill change the rest either instead or aswell people say crow double springs are better all round!!


Double springs don't fit on Au heads without considerable machining. AU's run progressive rate beehive springs whilst E series run straight linear springs.

And be careful cause you don't want to over-spring your valve train. Yes it is better to go stiffer than softer but you don't want to go overkill, cause essentially you will over "kill" your valve train.
If I was you I'd ask wade themselves for any recommendations.
Having said that I have a spreadsheet I knocked up a few years ago which determines the correct valve spring stiffness for any given cam on a sidevalve engine. If you can give me some specs on your rocker geometry (mass, end to centre distances, mass moment of inertia of your rocker) as well as your valve spring stiffness for a range of lifts as well as the mass of the valve spring, and finally a lift plot of your cam (lobe lift in 2.5 degree increments) then I could modify it for OHV applications.


Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set

Is there an advantage?


Machining can cost alot because you have to take the head off, you will be able to put the springs in without having to take the head off, which will save alot of money.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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370s pretty much a reco head though

 

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Location: Newcastle
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ford-racer46 wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
Like I said racer, beware the interwebbs there's a lot of s**t floating around.
Any way because of this i get mislead, so i ask questions like this, im not a mechanic! im learning but im not one, i just wanna do my car up the best i can so i search here for answers with people i trust, it worked out because if i didnt ask i would have wasted $180+ on double valve springs... :roll:
A shop here also said if i changed my springs it would give me more power, i explaind my cam(they never heard of wade) i read out my specs, i told them about my car, i also said Wade recomended standards valve springs are ok, and they disagreed and said get some crap i never heard of, it will give my car more power they recon!!...
XCabbie is spot on. There is significant amount of BS out there on the web/forums. That is why you need to buy some quality books to read and/or know which people to listen to.

For that workshop to have never heard of Wade cams is amazing. The original founder of Wade cams actually designed the camshafts for Sir Jack Brabham's early F1 cars.

You can get more power from a stiffer spring, but that is only if the spring it is replacing isn't sitting on the seat correctly. Particularly at higher rpm or under boost conditons. ie very old and worn.

There are good reasons why manufacturers and aftermakrets have moved onto beehive springs. Lower unspung mass, reduced harmonic issues, progressive rate changes are just a few.

The only limitation for our AU beehive seem to be the maximum lift being restricted to 0.512" or thereabouts as suggested by Wade cams.
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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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phillyc wrote:
ford-racer46 wrote:
xcabbi wrote:
Like I said racer, beware the interwebbs there's a lot of s**t floating around.
Any way because of this i get mislead, so i ask questions like this, im not a mechanic! im learning but im not one, i just wanna do my car up the best i can so i search here for answers with people i trust, it worked out because if i didnt ask i would have wasted $180+ on double valve springs... :roll:
A shop here also said if i changed my springs it would give me more power, i explaind my cam(they never heard of wade) i read out my specs, i told them about my car, i also said Wade recomended standards valve springs are ok, and they disagreed and said get some crap i never heard of, it will give my car more power they recon!!...
XCabbie is spot on. There is significant amount of BS out there on the web/forums. That is why you need to buy some quality books to read and/or know which people to listen to.

For that workshop to have never heard of Wade cams is amazing. The original founder of Wade cams actually designed the camshafts for Sir Jack Brabham's early F1 cars.

You can get more power from a stiffer spring, but that is only if the spring it is replacing isn't sitting on the seat correctly. Particularly at higher rpm or under boost conditons. ie very old and worn.

There are good reasons why manufacturers and aftermakrets have moved onto beehive springs. Lower unspung mass, reduced harmonic issues, progressive rate changes are just a few.

The only limitation for our AU beehive seem to be the maximum lift being restricted to 0.512" or thereabouts as suggested by Wade cams.

Ok guys, ill just leave until the head gets worked!! do it all at once with the cam specs and mesured correctly, who do i contact for head work? is it an engineer?

 

_________________

Now, I've got a message for all the other drivers out there. If you smell a delicious, crispy smell after the race, it's not your tailpipe. It's just a little of Shake...and Bake!
SHAKE AND BAKE

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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GeZza200 wrote:
Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set


All I can make out on their price list is the following:

306810-kit H/D V/Spring kit AU SOHC Ford, $368.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicon-chrome Dual valesprings and matched re (and then it runs out of text)


And here is the item for the equivalent EL motor:
306811-kit H/D V/Spring kit EL SOHC 6 $379.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicone-chrome Dual valvesprings retainers and c (and then it runs out of text)
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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 30

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Ride: EF Falcon GLi

Location: ADELAIDE
SA, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
GeZza200 wrote:
Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set


All I can make out on their price list is the following:

306810-kit H/D V/Spring kit AU SOHC Ford, $368.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicon-chrome Dual valesprings and matched re (and then it runs out of text)


And here is the item for the equivalent EL motor:
306811-kit H/D V/Spring kit EL SOHC 6 $379.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicone-chrome Dual valvesprings retainers and c (and then it runs out of text)

Ive been looking for ages on the net for a price on porting and shaving, cant find nothing, and every shop here all say, sorry mate we send away "were" i say....ring ring "ok later bud" they say

 

_________________

Now, I've got a message for all the other drivers out there. If you smell a delicious, crispy smell after the race, it's not your tailpipe. It's just a little of Shake...and Bake!
SHAKE AND BAKE

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:34 pm 
Parts Gopher
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ford-racer46 wrote:
Ive been looking for ages on the net for a price on porting and shaving, cant find nothing, and every shop here all say, sorry mate we send away "were" i say....ring ring "ok later bud" they say
Hoppers heads advertise in Street Ford magazine. Another good place for information along with Budget Build Street Fords.

http://www.hoppersheads.com.au/pkits.htm

How hard are you looking? Just Yellow Pages - Adelaide - Head reconditioning = 18 responses.

http://www.mclarenengineering.com.au/services.html

Those guys look alright?! Performance Valve seat machining (3 angle cuts etc), Porting, Performance engine builds etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 30

Posts: 580

Joined: 9th Sep 2009

Ride: EF Falcon GLi

Location: ADELAIDE
SA, Australia

phillyc wrote:
ford-racer46 wrote:
Ive been looking for ages on the net for a price on porting and shaving, cant find nothing, and every shop here all say, sorry mate we send away "were" i say....ring ring "ok later bud" they say
Hoppers heads advertise in Street Ford magazine. Another good place for information along with Budget Build Street Fords.

http://www.hoppersheads.com.au/pkits.htm

How hard are you looking? Just Yellow Pages - Adelaide - Head reconditioning = 18 responses.

http://www.mclarenengineering.com.au/services.html

Those guys look alright?! Performance Valve seat machining (3 angle cuts etc), Porting, Performance engine builds etc.

Awsome ill be ringen them tomorrow but so i dont get my pants pulled down over the price, whats a good one!!

 

_________________

Now, I've got a message for all the other drivers out there. If you smell a delicious, crispy smell after the race, it's not your tailpipe. It's just a little of Shake...and Bake!
SHAKE AND BAKE

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Springs In an AU
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 29

Posts: 2563

Joined: 19th Feb 2007

Gallery: 21 images

Ride: 98 EL Futura

Power: 199 rwkw

Location: Lilydale
VIC, Australia

xcabbi wrote:
GeZza200 wrote:
Atomic Performance do double valve springs for the AU head with out having to do any machining, they are $370 for the set


All I can make out on their price list is the following:

306810-kit H/D V/Spring kit AU SOHC Ford, $368.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicon-chrome Dual valesprings and matched re (and then it runs out of text)


And here is the item for the equivalent EL motor:
306811-kit H/D V/Spring kit EL SOHC 6 $379.50
Item description:
H/Duty silicone-chrome Dual valvesprings retainers and c (and then it runs out of text)



I sent them an email about the springs a little while ago here was the response.

Hi Gerard,
Yes they fit straight up without any machining or special seals, etc. We have a specially wound inner that fits on top of the factory spring boss and also fits our retainer, so operates with the correct tensions but with a reduced installed height. The #306810- kit is designed for the AU and are $368.50 for the lot - dual springs and chrome moly retainers. Freight in an airbag is $19.80 and the kits are in stock for immediate shipment.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to call/email.

Cheers, Brad

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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