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Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h 

 

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 Post subject: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
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G'day guys,

My 98 EL Falcon has a strange vibration/noise at about 80km/h and above...

It's more like a loud humming/droning noise that occurs when the car reaches the Overdrive gear. You can't really feel much of a 'vibration' as such.

I'm guessing it would be some sort of bearing somewhere in the drive line, maybe from the rear of the gearbox back?

Any suggestions?
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:37 am 
Oompa Loompa
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had something similar and was the extension housing bush for the yoke, replaced bush and yoke (yoke had slight score marks & would cause the same problem if not replaced or repolished)..tom
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:12 pm 
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It could be the tailshaft is out of balance. Uni joint might be rooted, but thats usually accompanied by a vibration you can feel when coasting at high speeds.

Or as tomsford has suggested, the extension housing bush/yolk.

Could also be pinion bearing in the diff is rooted. But that would be felt and the noise would vary with road speed. Axle bearings would be the same, but the noise would generally disappear when turning a corner when you load one of the bearings up.

Trial and error thing really. A diff or trans specialist could probably pin point it quickly just from experience.

Worst case it could be the tranny itself if it only happens in 4th. Does it happen in 3rd at the same speeds? Maybe even the torque converter lockup is not working properly?
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:40 pm 
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have a look under the car at the extension housing on the tranny see if there is any oil leaking. Good indication. But even if it isnt leaking it may still be the problem.

here is more info if it is the extension housing ->http://www.fordmods.com/ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/vibration-at-60km-h-70km-h-t82734.html

 

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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:
It could be the tailshaft is out of balance. Uni joint might be rooted, but thats usually accompanied by a vibration you can feel when coasting at high speeds.

Or as tomsford has suggested, the extension housing bush/yolk.

Could also be pinion bearing in the diff is rooted. But that would be felt and the noise would vary with road speed. Axle bearings would be the same, but the noise would generally disappear when turning a corner when you load one of the bearings up.

Trial and error thing really. A diff or trans specialist could probably pin point it quickly just from experience.

Worst case it could be the tranny itself if it only happens in 4th. Does it happen in 3rd at the same speeds? Maybe even the torque converter lockup is not working properly?


Hmmm... I didn't even think about it being the tranny or torque converter?! The car only has 134,000 genuine kilometres, with up to date servicing every 10,000kms, plus it was a one elderly owner vehicle so obviously not thrashed around, so I wouldn't have expected anything major to occur so early in its life?! :?

And to elaborate on the problem nose/vibration, it does only occur within 4th gear. If I drop it back to 3rd or even 2nd, the noise/vibration is not noticeable.

So when the car steps into 4th at 80km/h, the humming sound/vibration occurs in 'waves'. Although when the car increases in speed, the 'waves' become tighter, if that makes any sense?? So it does appear to be relative to the speed, though only at 80km/h and above.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Bassfreak55 wrote:
And to elaborate on the problem nose/vibration, it does only occur within 4th gear. If I drop it back to 3rd or even 2nd, the noise/vibration is not noticeable.

So when the car steps into 4th at 80km/h, the humming sound/vibration occurs in 'waves'. Although when the car increases in speed, the 'waves' become tighter, if that makes any sense?? So it does appear to be relative to the speed, though only at 80km/h and above.


It may just be that the engine noises and vibrations are hiding the noise in other gears.

But the last bit that you've explained would almost make me 100% say it was tailshaft vibrations. Either needs a balance or the extension housing bush is a bit worn along the shaft to move around a bit. Would also probably be the cheapest place to start too.

Also, when it kicks into 4th about 80, that would be near when the t/c locks up. Can you see/feel the lockup and see if it happens before or after the lockup?
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:
But the last bit that you've explained would almost make me 100% say it was tailshaft vibrations. Either needs a balance or the extension housing bush is a bit worn along the shaft to move around a bit.


I'll have the tailshaft checked out by a tranny/diff specialist. Also, I'll probably just end up replacing the extension housing bush/seal/gasket, seeing as though it's only $50 or so in parts. What would these be worth for a tranny specialist to fit?

arm79 wrote:
Also, when it kicks into 4th about 80, that would be near when the t/c locks up. Can you see/feel the lockup and see if it happens before or after the lockup?


I don't know all that much about gearboxes and torque converters to be honest!. So what do you mean exactly when you refer to 'seeing or hearing' the lockup?

Once this is explained, I'll head out and take it for another cruise!
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Bush and seal isnt expensive, but the labour might be. Depends how the guy does it. Some remove the extension housing to do it, some have a puller that can remove and install the bush with the extension housing in place.

The converter lockup is when a clutch in the converter physcially joins and stops the converter slipping.

You can usually see it on the tacho when the engine drops 300 or 400 rpm in 4th, but you dont feel it change a gear.

Can feel it because it usually feels and sounds like the engine is labouring a little.

Much more noticable in econ mode as it will try get into lockup earlier.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:43 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
The converter lockup is when a clutch in the converter physcially joins and stops the converter slipping.

You can usually see it on the tacho when the engine drops 300 or 400 rpm in 4th, but you dont feel it change a gear.

Can feel it because it usually feels and sounds like the engine is labouring a little.

Much more noticable in econ mode as it will try get into lockup earlier.


Thanks for the explanation, now I understand what you're referring to!

The vibration/drone sound definitely sounds upon lockup of the torque converter, when the revs drop to about 1,500RPM or so in 4th gear in 'Economy' mode. What does this indicate?

If I drop it back a gear, I can't seem to notice the noise/vibration, but as you said, may just be masked by engine noise.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:50 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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easy steps, chock fronk wheels, jack up the rear end & secure with stands, place a container at extension housing to catch any fluid, and remove drive shaft, check for any scores on the yoke, the absolute smallest scuffs will cause a problem, if in doubt, remove extension housing and (support gearbox) and check yoke bush, any wear mainly bottom side of bush is a NO-GO, needs replacement, if so any auto trans place IE: fluid drive will do it for you if you just take the extension into them......check for tight uni joins while 'ya at it.....after you get it all back together have a beer--burbon--or bong, what ever ya poison is...good luck...tom
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Is the car new to you?

You sure its not the "im being seriously overdriven" moan and drone all I6's give when they drop into lockup at low engine speeds. If so, thats pretty normal.

They do sound a bit crappy when they do that. Specially when you slowly accelerate until you kick it out of lockup.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:
Is the car new to you?

You sure its not the "im being seriously overdriven" moan and drone all I6's give when they drop into lockup at low engine speeds. If so, thats pretty normal.


Yeah, I only bought the car a couple of month ago. The "I'm being seriously overdriven" moan? Never heard of it?! Haha. I've driven a few EL I6's, although haven't heard anything like this yet!


arm79 wrote:
They do sound a bit crappy when they do that. Specially when you slowly accelerate until you kick it out of lockup.


Yeah, that's exactly what it's doing. The droning noise/vibration will get worse with any increase in throttle, until it kicks out of lockup :?
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Every I6 I've driven does it. Some more noticable than others.

It might be a T/C balance issue, but I'd expect to feel a vibration rather than just hear a droning noise.

If you think about it, when you kick into 4th your asking the trans to overdrive the wheels by about 20%. Because the converter is converter is still "slipping" its amplifying torque a little.

Then it locks up and you start overdriving the wheels by 32% and the thing is connected 100% to the driveshaft. Like being in 5th in a manual and accelerating from 80 to 100 slowly. They usually dont sound too happy.

To me that drone is just how the box sounds under that circumstance and load.

I still get a similar feeling from my BF when the thing is in 6th and the converter is locked. The drone isn't as loud, but you can feel the driveline isnt too happy about the situation.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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arm79 wrote:
Like being in 5th in a manual and accelerating from 80 to 100 slowly. They usually dont sound too happy.

I still get a similar feeling from my BF when the thing is in 6th and the converter is locked. The drone isn't as loud, but you can feel the driveline isnt too happy about the situation.


That's a good way of explaining it, as that is the EXACT sound that it makes, although on and off in 'waves'.

If it was just that drone noise at low RPM on its own, I wouldn't have worried about it, as I know that's normal.

It's just that whole 'wave' sound effect I'm worried about - sounds like there is a little 'play' somewhere, like a bearing or bush.

I guess I'll just have to start with replacing the transmission extension bush/seal/gasket and have the rest of the tail-shaft checked.
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 Post subject: Re: Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Vibration/droning noise at 80km/h - could be the missus! :lol: :roll:

 

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