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What is the maximum cam lift on a std I6 

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:12 pm 
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nah the head wont be staying stock, i have the HP JMM race series head here to go with the cam. The ECU will be stock at first, until such time that i can save the funds for a WOLF unit or similar. Later on the cam will be coming out for a turbo grind once all i have all the turbo bits together.

I was simply tryin to get some specs for the cam for reference to others when choosing cams.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:45 pm 
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good stuff, keep us posted on how it goes.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:56 am 
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Wade might have the numbers on the JMM profiles but unless they have the masters on it they cant produce it, and its that simple. You cant just go to a grinder and say I want X lift by Y duration by Z LSA and they will just magically produce the exact spec cam you requested. You MUST have a master to grind from, Your master MUST have the right ramps to suit the type of valvetrain, ie slide rocker, radius roller rocker, roller lifter and flat tappet lifters. Each MUST have the correct lifter jack to lock the lifters or HLA's depending on what you use. Then you get to the EASY bit of finding the right lift, and duration to give you the desired area under curve figures of the lobe. If you request a custom grind, chances are that your getting a close to what you requested profile, and most likely not what you asked for! AFAIK the only cam manufacturer in australia that cam produce cams from numbers is crow cams, but at around $2500 a master its pretty bloody pricey.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:04 am 
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Jaysen wrote:
Wade might have the numbers on the JMM profiles but unless they have the masters on it they cant produce it, and its that simple. You cant just go to a grinder and say I want X lift by Y duration by Z LSA and they will just magically produce the exact spec cam you requested. You MUST have a master to grind from, Your master MUST have the right ramps to suit the type of valvetrain, ie slide rocker, radius roller rocker, roller lifter and flat tappet lifters. Each MUST have the correct lifter jack to lock the lifters or HLA's depending on what you use. Then you get to the EASY bit of finding the right lift, and duration to give you the desired area under curve figures of the lobe. If you request a custom grind, chances are that your getting a close to what you requested profile, and most likely not what you asked for! AFAIK the only cam manufacturer in australia that cam produce cams from numbers is crow cams, but at around $2500 a master its pretty bloody pricey.


id say since wade grind the JMM cams they would have the master. but that doesnt matter anyway cos they wont do it for you. If ppl want a JMM cam they should go to JMM.

 

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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:02 pm 
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i measured my jmm dev 4 it's got 480 thou lift but couldn't tell you what duration its got
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:15 pm 
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opto wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
voxace wrote:
More like wider 122, tighter 118..




mines on 120



Okay, so why is Wade Cams showing and using LSA's of 114 to 110 ?


118 is not tight.

118 is REDICLIOUSLY wide.
122 is just plain stupid

why do wade/surecam/crow/waggot/crane etc grind their cams from 114-106deg LSA's??? Cause they know what they are on about. Thats why

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:58 pm 
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Walkinshaw wrote:
opto wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
voxace wrote:
More like wider 122, tighter 118..




mines on 120



Okay, so why is Wade Cams showing and using LSA's of 114 to 110 ?


118 is not tight.

118 is REDICLIOUSLY wide.
122 is just plain stupid

why do wade/surecam/crow/waggot/crane etc grind their cams from 114-106deg LSA's??? Cause they know what they are on about. Thats why


just because a majority says it is so, does not prove it to be right...

we'll see anyway. your all damning the cams befor you give them a chance.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:43 pm 
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i think walkinshaw is making his point from a physics point of view, rather than what out and out makes the most grunt

i'll have to read up on all the LSA business

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:26 pm 
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the problem is you can't just read up on only the LSA part of things.

as it's only one part of the total package.
the numbers quoted by cam grinders are only that, numbers.

two cams can have the same timing duration and LSA yet be completly different profiles.


there is no point getting in a fit of rage because some one is doing it differently.

hell at one point in time, cams didn't have overlap. residuals in the chamber was thought to be some thing that had to be excepted.

if it wasn't for people trying different things we'd still be eating raw meat we scavenged off the dirt

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:41 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
the problem is you can't just read up on only the LSA part of things.

as it's only one part of the total package.
the numbers quoted by cam grinders are only that, numbers.

two cams can have the same timing duration and LSA yet be completly different profiles.


there is no point getting in a fit of rage because some one is doing it differently.

hell at one point in time, cams didn't have overlap. residuals in the chamber was thought to be some thing that had to be excepted.

if it wasn't for people trying different things we'd still be eating raw meat we scavenged off the dirt


you make it sound like pumping out the LSA is something ground breaking.....

'fraid not

With regards to max lift. Lift over 500" is waisted really and is often used to create steep ramps to open the valves quicker and earlier.

A 376bhp head was flow benched, and low and behold, no flow increase over 450thou :)

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:54 pm 
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Walkinshaw wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
the problem is you can't just read up on only the LSA part of things.

as it's only one part of the total package.
the numbers quoted by cam grinders are only that, numbers.

two cams can have the same timing duration and LSA yet be completly different profiles.


there is no point getting in a fit of rage because some one is doing it differently.

hell at one point in time, cams didn't have overlap. residuals in the chamber was thought to be some thing that had to be excepted.

if it wasn't for people trying different things we'd still be eating raw meat we scavenged off the dirt


you make it sound like pumping out the LSA is something ground breaking.....

'fraid not

With regards to max lift. Lift over 500" is waisted really and is often used to create steep ramps to open the valves quicker and earlier.

A 376bhp head was flow benched, and low and behold, no flow increase over 450thou :)




i don't see you comming up with and cams that work. or any at all for that matter. if your such an expert put your money where your mouth is.

or how about we sit back a few month and see the proof in person, out on the strip.


dont talk flow figures at me like i've never seen them befor.
the head i'm using does gain flow with lifts above 450.


but really is there any point in trying to talk to you about it??
you seem convinced that the lift is pointless. and even if my engine was finished tomorrow and the proof was right infront of you, you still wouldn't except it


by the way, maybe you should call crow, wade, and tighe cams. to tell them your awsome theory. they all make cams with more then 500thou lift

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:04 pm 
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Im sure these cams will make good power, but it wont be because anyone has made a brilliant breakthrough in cam design.

And do people really have to go out and start grinding their own cams before they are allowed to comment on a cam profile?

Interesting thing about forums is that you come across people who know a lot more than it seems, and others who know 1/8 of what the claim.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:05 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
i don't see you comming up with and cams that work. or any at all for that matter. if your such an expert put your money where your mouth is.


If i could afford a master, well then i would have one.

tickford_6 wrote:
or how about we sit back a few month and see the proof in person, out on the strip.

These cams have been out for a while, we've waited long enough. Ive seen one dyno run, and quite frankly it wasnt impressive at all.


tickford_6 wrote:
dont talk flow figures at me like i've never seen them befor.
the head i'm using does gain flow with lifts above 450.


Sorry if you felt patronised, its just that your previous posts indicated that you are a fluid flow amatuer.

Thats great your head flows more above 450". Care to share your flow figures? from 0.400-0.600


tickford_6 wrote:
but really is there any point in trying to talk to you about it??
you seem convinced that the lift is pointless. and even if my engine was finished tomorrow and the proof was right infront of you, you still wouldn't except it


Yes I'm convinced lift is useless. Its so bad I'm going to run a 0thou cam, its great, no chamber blow by at all.
Like I said above I'm waiting for significant proof. MPH please.


tickford_6 wrote:
by the way, maybe you should call crow, wade, and tighe cams. to tell them your awsome theory. they all make cams with more then 500thou lift


Really do they? Wow, hang on...my cam has over 500" I'd better throw it in the bin.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:38 pm 
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the proof is being built as we speak.

more to the point though, DO YOU HAVE PROOF OTHERWISE??

until you do stop wasting my time

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:42 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
the proof is being built as we speak.

more to the point though, DO YOU HAVE PROOF OTHERWISE??

until you do stop wasting my time


Proof is lack of proof. You can't claim something is "something" untill you have proof. Untill you do i can make claims such as

"this cam will make a great pudding if combined with 3 engine rings, a cup of flower, and 3 HLA's"

and it holds as much water as

"this cam is fanbloody tastic"

 

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