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What V6 to fit into a falcon? 

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:49 pm 
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If you want a driver's car, why don't you just buy jap?

No matter how much money you spend on a falcon, the likelihood of it beating a R34 GTR or Supra TT around a track are slim!

And you could pick one up cheaper and with hassle than all the work required in modifing a falcoon.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Tommeh wrote:
If you want a driver's car, why don't you just buy jap?

No matter how much money you spend on a falcon, the likelihood of it beating a R34 GTR or Supra TT around a track are slim!

And you could pick one up cheaper and with hassle than all the work required in modifing a falcoon.

Now here's someone that should be banned! Just kidding of course :)
You say what you want to say.

At first i thought you said jag, not jap. When i think of a drivers car i think of say a bmw, or aston martin (and both have inline six's placed well back for good weight distribution!). But these generally aren't cheap and mucking around with an expensive car risks losing a lot in resale, plus they are imported and parts are harder to source. Modding an expensive car is fine if you're willing to do a lot of dough, but most choose a bit of balance here. And a falcon just might suit you better.

In the case of a falcon, it's no major deal if you are replacing the motor to choose one that suits your particular purposes. I'm not suggesting something radical. I'm not suggesting we move the front axle line forward, or move the engine backwards, on a road car. It's just an engine choice.

I'm not actually thinking about track racing, i'm thinking about general driving outside of traffic jams, where a nice handling car is nicer to drive, and a car with good traction helps get the power down, especially if there is lots of it, or the car is driven on wet, icy, or dirt roads, or off road.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Fair enough mate.

i hope it all works out well for you. A 2JZ in a Falcon imo, is the best option. Possibly the toughest inline 6 to come out of japan.

If you want to think way out of the box, even a WRX boxer engine placed close to the firewall may be an option?

But at the end of the day, i don't see why a falcon boosted 6 can't do all the things your looking for...

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Tommeh wrote:
Fair enough mate.

i hope it all works out well for you. A 2JZ in a Falcon imo, is the best option. Possibly the toughest inline 6 to come out of japan.

If you want to think way out of the box, even a WRX boxer engine placed close to the firewall may be an option?

But at the end of the day, i don't see why a falcon boosted 6 can't do all the things your looking for...

What car is the 2JZ fitted to?

I did briefly consider a four cylinder, and sure, a subaru boxer is both light and very short giving excellent weight reduction and distribution. The weight reduction could be 100kg, and the entire motor would be behind the front axle line. But i figure you would want a supercharger so you have enough off-idle torque to get things moving and cruise nicely. What kind of modifications and dollars might be required to get one of these to match or better the falcon six in the lower and midrange areas? And what would the fuel consumption then be like? One advantage is the lesser weight means the same power would actually mean more performance and act towards lower fuel consumption.

A boosted falcon six is even worse than a std falcon six in terms of weight and weight distribution, so it's not a solution at all.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:11 pm 
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The venerable 2JZ - GTE is the JZA80 Supra powerplant! As you said is the 3 Litre Twin Turbo donk, which stock, makes a healthy 310hp.

Why do you say you would need a supercharger for low end grunt for the boxer engine? The spool up of the turbo is very early, so almost no lag there, and boxer engines are renowned for taking abuse extremely well.

The biggest problem i can see with fitting a boxer would be the clearance between the two front shock towers, as the boxer is quite wide.

For that reason, an inline 6 is what i'd go with, as the falon I6 fits quite comfortably!

But, in saying that, the 2JZ is about 60kg heavier than the falc I6 with all the turbo gear on, and i'm sure by adding a turbo set-up to your falc, the weight will still be less.

Btw, Have you done any handling improvements to your EB? I recommend taking a Turbo falc for a spin, with handling enhancements etc, i'm sure it will change your mind!

 

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Last edited by Tommeh on Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:28 pm 
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How about the I6 from a BMW M3 CSL. 250kw from 3.2L, 8000rpm.. mmmm.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Tommeh wrote:
The venerable 2JZ - GTE is the JZA80 Supra
powerplant! As you said is the 3 Litre Twin Turbo donk, which stock,
makes a healthy 310hp.

That's the motor fitted to the early nineties 4wd model isn't it? Where
would people get a low kay good nick one of them? Thats around 230kW.
I don't think i would want to fit and maintain a motor with all that turbo
stuff, but it should have a good bottom end for the falcon, indeed, the
falcon is lighter than this supra.


Quote:
Why do you say you would need a supercharger for low end grunt
for the boxer engine? The spool up of the turbo is very early, so almost
no lag there, and boxer engines are renowned for taking abuse extremely well.

The falcon would be around 200kg heavier than an impreza wouldn't it,
with longer gearing too. The falcon even with better weight distribution is
still in the style of a Grand Tourer rather than an outright sports machine.
You still want to be able to plug along highways and up and down the
dales with the motor doing low revs and maintaining speed. Even a 2.5L
boxer isn't much more than half the falcon's capacity, that's a big drop,
even with a turbo motor. What kind of torque do the boxers put out?


Quote:
The biggest problem i can see with fitting a boxer would be the
clearance between the two front shock towers, as the boxer is quite wide.

I've had a brief look in a few of their engine bays and it's so damn
different from everything else it's hard to absorb, never mind some with a
spare tyre atop the motor concealing everything!


Quote:
For that reason, an inline 6 is what i'd go with, as the falon I6 fits quite comfortably!

I'm sure the V8 blokes would say the V8 fits nicely too, and of course a
V6 fits even nicer than a V8, not only is it shorter, the angle is usually
60deg rather than the V8's 90deg, so the V6 is narrower too.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:39 pm 
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fnp wrote:
How about the I6 from a BMW M3 CSL. 250kw from 3.2L, 8000rpm.. mmmm.

I'm sure it's a nice motor, i'm sure it's a very nice motor, but unless it has
an alloy block it would be similar in weight to the falcon six, so it wouldn't
help the weight and distribution. Plus the bottom end might be a backward
step from say an AU motor, and surely would be compared to a BA/BF motor.

I might add though that if a 6spd auto was fitted it would in some
measure improve the bottom end, making a motor that might not quite be
in the falcon six's league in terms of bottom end match up.

If you suggested an M version of the 4.0l V8 (4.4L?), i would be all for it.
It's lighter than the bmw six, being a V8 it provides better weight
distribution, and has no shortage of bottom end. Price would be a problem though!

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:41 pm 
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Supra's are all RWD, the JZA80 was produced from 1994. Unlike Nissan's 4wd platform mated with the RB26 TT.

Is this something your actually looking at taking on? or all research for the hell of it?..

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Tommeh wrote:
Supra's are all RWD, the JZA80 was produced from
1994. Unlike Nissan's 4wd platform mated with the RB26 TT.

Whoops. Yes, the supra was made by toyota. I was thinking of the
mitsubishi . . . gto? . . i can't think of it now.

Quote:
Is this something your actually looking at taking on? or all research for the hell of it?..

I did seriously look into it, but decided to fit an AU motor, mainly for
reasons of lack of sufficient experience and cost of doing something
different. But who knows what i or others may do in future? I genuinely
see value in looking into this, and so do Ford. Are you suggesting Ford is
wrong? A V6 would fit very nicely, do wonders for handling and traction,
and if the right one is chosen would provide a solid boost in power without
compromising fuel economy.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Skyline GTR perhaps?

I would ditch the V6 idea, espsecially a holden 6, buicks, ecotecs, alloytecs, all don't have the same potential or reliability, and falcon I6's are actually smoother.

The falcon I6 is far better than any holden 6, but when it comes to V8's, sadly the LSx series are in the lead.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Tommeh wrote:
Skyline GTR perhaps?

No, there was a two door supercar looking thing, but it was heavy.

Quote:
I would ditch the V6 idea, espsecially a holden 6, buicks, ecotecs,
alloytecs, all don't have the same potential or reliability, and falcon I6's
are actually smoother.

The falcon I6 is far better than any holden 6, . . .

I realise the commo V6's are below par, i did only really consider a
stroked 4.2 (too pricey for what you get), a 'blowertech', and the 190kW
340Nm alloytech. The falcon 6 is much smoother than these, but maybe
not so compared to say the hilux and nissan V6's mentioned earlier.
What's your response to these?


Quote:
but when it comes to V8's, sadly the LSx series are in the lead.

Who makes the LSx, holden (GMH)? You say the LSx is better than a bmw or ferrari V8?

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:31 pm 
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+1 for the M3 donk. Or go the 3.8 six out of a E34 M5. 300+ bhp and strong as

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:40 pm 
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XW '70 wrote:
+1 for the M3 donk. Or go the 3.8 six out of a E34 M5. 300+ bhp and strong as

Why wouldn't you just enjoy these motors in the bmw's themselves,
unless you can afford the motor but not the car?
[http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200259108996&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:au].
As much as i would like these motors, if you are dealing with a Falcon
why wouldn't you just use a BA/BF motor and give it some extra stonk?
But even better than that, just put a strong V6 in, and you get most of
that and more, because the handling starts to approach that of the bmw.
The bmw has the inline 6 placed further to the rear, so to achieve similar
balance in a Falcon you need to fit a V6.

The falcon has the centre of the six forward of the front axle line, which
means that the motor actually takes weight off the rear axle. The centre
of gravity of the motor is in a similar position to that of a front wheel
drive like the mitsubishi 380 and toyota camry.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:08 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Tommeh wrote:
Skyline GTR perhaps?

No, there was a two door supercar looking thing, but it was heavy.

Quote:
I would ditch the V6 idea, espsecially a holden 6, buicks, ecotecs, alloytecs, all don't have the same potential or reliability, and falcon I6's are actually smoother.

The falcon I6 is far better than any holden 6, . . .

I realise the commo V6's are below par, i did only really consider a stroked 4.2 (too pricey for what you get), a 'blowertech', and the 190kW 340Nm alloytech. The falcon 6 is much smoother than these, but maybe not so compared to say the hilux and nissan V6's mentioned earlier. What's your response to these?


Quote:
but when it comes to V8's, sadly the LSx series are in the lead.

Who makes the LSx, holden (GMH)? You say the LSx is better than a bmw or ferrari V8?


I mean in comparison to the ford's v8's. European v8's are much better, but ofcourse you pay for it. Yes CHevy LS1 etc, are still single cam/pushrod design, but after 50yrs of R & D they have almost perfected the design.

The mustang Modular 4.6 is a great engine. The BOSS 5.4L seen in aussie falcons is actually a truck engine, but with DOHC heads. The 4.6 would have been a better option with aussie falcs imo, but everyone wants displacement!

One down side with the modular engines is pure size, due to the quadcam set-up. here is a pic comparing the Windsor with a BOSS 4.6...

Imagine the 5.4L...

Image

 

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Last edited by Tommeh on Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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