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Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ? 

 

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 Post subject: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:57 pm 
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hey guys, just a quick question, why do all holden (sedans) seem to be lighter the Fords (sedans)

2004 HSV Clubsport R8 Series 2 - weight 1696 kg - power 285 kw / 382.2 bhp @ 5800 rpm
2005 FPV GT-P - weight 1855 kg / 4090 lbs - power 293.8 kw / 394 bhp @ 5500 rpm

What makes them heavier, i have a Ef Flacon how heavy r they?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:07 am 
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Has always pretty much been like that.....

Go to a car yard with a VT and a AU (comparison) jump into the VT, get nice and comfy sitting behind the wheel and reach accross to the passenger door. Do the same on a AU.....

Yep VT is narrower.....

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:11 am 
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cause there missing every second nut and bolt

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:17 am 
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You picked a VZ to compare to a B series? VY/VZ have been the lightest commodores since the VS. A VE would make a more appropriate comparison.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:05 am 
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[quote=|| xXFalconXx ||]

i have a Ef Flacon how heavy r they?[/quote]

depending on what it is eg. ghia,gli??

my ed weighs 1620kg
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:58 am 
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because commonwhores need that extra less weight to keep up with the taxis...lol
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:29 am 
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AU99 wrote:
Has always pretty much been like that.....

Go to a car yard with a VT and a AU (comparison) jump into the VT, get nice and comfy sitting behind the wheel and reach accross to the passenger door. Do the same on a AU.....

Yep VT is narrower.....


Here I thought it was because of the lighter engines, less bracing, less metal, simpler lighter suspensions, s**t glued in firewall and rear seats with ski port only.

As cabbi said, a compaison with a VE would be better. This was Holdens first "safe" design, "safe" enough to compare with a Falcon weight wise and the first time they really started building a proper car.

A friend of mine who works for Toyota, and is a dead set Holden nut, was saying the other day "you remember how Holden was jumping up and down about having built a car so strong (the VE), they are using 4000 welds per car and have invested in 1 piece stamped side moulds... Toyota Australia was doing that 10 years ago, its about f**k time they caught up".
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:59 pm 
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And of course the VT is narrower. Its still a VN chassis (which iirc has been used from the VB).
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:17 pm 
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xcabbi wrote:
And of course the VT is narrower. Its still a VN chassis (which iirc has been used from the VB).


all 3 of those cars are totally totally different in chassis and design.. wow.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am 
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Commodores are lighter cos their engines are crap....... simple

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 am 
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Especially with the v8's, the LS engines all have alloy blocks which would reduce the weight significantly. apparantly the alloy head on the XD weighed 22kg less. Also the ba suspension is a bit more heavy duty than the vz, the front of that is basically the e-series suspension minus the upper wishbone.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 am 
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The OP has a Built ford tough logo as his avatar. That should explain why fords are heavier.

also fords are typically a bit larger than their commo counterparts. More metal = more weight. Others have already covered the fact that the v6 is smaller and alloy, whereas the falc uses the larger iron block donk.

Theres a reason commo's arnt taxi's, its because they would never survive one full lap of the sun.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
Theres a reason commo's arnt taxi's, its because they would never survive one full lap of the sun.



Rather dude, you should say that there are almost no commo taxi's, you do see the occasional one, but they just don't last the distance like a Falcon does!

Commodores had a chassis change at the VN, which is bigger than the early vb-vl, and again somewhere around the newer commo's.

One thing i can tell you is that every commodore I've driven, Vb's, Vh's, Vl's, Vn's, Vt's, they all feel loose compared to falcon's of the same age.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:57 pm 
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I remember reading that the VN was a rebody. Basically a widebody dumped on a VB-VL chassis.
The VT was touted as a ground up rebuild but you don't but a some things appear to still be there right from the very first commodore. Sure dimensionally its not the same but principally it is. Sure as s**t the VE at least looks like a ground up redesign but before that not much has changed in 29 years.
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 Post subject: Re: Why are Holdens Lighter the Fords ?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Nope, VN was not a re-body onto the older floor pan, there are a number of changes, including it's size. It is fundamentally along the same design lines as the earlier commy's tho. Part of the reason the Vn Series 1 feels so loose, the floor flexes so much!

I had a VH 253, auto air & ps, 4 wheel disc model that i wrecked out for parts, and when driving it i couldn't believe how loose the car felt, or how much the floor flexed when you drove it hard. My old man had a VB when they were brand new, he managed to stretch the body very badly towing only what holden said it could tow!

If you want to see family heritage, take a look at the floor pan of the XR of 1967 & the EL of 1997. But it was pretty good overall to start with, in comparison to a commy floor pan. Both holden & ford are guilty of using carry over bits in newer models, sometimes it's a good thing as the old bits are good, other times it's due to them having to be cheap to meet a budget.

On Fordmods we know there are a lot of newer falcon bits that can be fit into older falcon's, sometimes with only minimal work.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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