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Why does my clutch keep shuddering? 

 

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 Post subject: Why does my clutch keep shuddering?
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Got an EL fairmont

Converted it to 5spd using EA parts

Put the clutch and flywheel in and about 1 month later it started shuddering

Put up with it for a year

Put another secondhand clutch and flywheel in and it was perfect for another month until it started shuddering.

I thought it was just me getting dodgy secondhand parts (got em for nothing so not too big a worry)

2 months ago I bought a new clutch pressure & friction plate and had the flywheel machined. The shudder is back now as bad as ever.

WTF is going on?
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 Post subject: CLUTCH
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:45 pm 
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are u letting tour foot off the clutch too slow? when does it shudder?

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:49 pm 
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i found its driving style, if you slip your clutch the tiniest bit as in you keep the revs at say 800 till your clucth is all the way out, it goes away, if you just about let it die before you accelerate it shudders a tad....make any sense?
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:58 pm 
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It sounds like you may need some lessons on driving a manual lol.

Are you riding the clutch? It can cause hot spots and will begin to shudder.
Did you clean the spline on the box and grease it when you installed it?
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:22 pm 
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my 4spd xf has done that for ages but only when ya drive off slowly but it still hooks up no wories. this hot spoting sounds on the money as it only does it when sliping the clutch a bit and not when at hi revs and ya dump the clutch. id only wory bout it if it isnt hooking up.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:33 pm 
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Walker wrote:
It sounds like you may need some lessons on driving a manual lol.

Are you riding the clutch? It can cause hot spots and will begin to shudder.
Did you clean the spline on the box and grease it when you installed it?


Sounds like you should get some lessons on tact lol.

Nar not riding it at all. I'm well above the average drivers skill and I've driven manual all my life. I did clean the splines, shaft and greased the thrust bearing when I replaced the clutch each time.

Funny thing the hot spots are mentioned, I remember getting the clutch bloody hot when carefully pulling my ski boat out of a river once, got it hot enough that you could smell it. The shudder went away for a month after that.

That made me think WTF is going on. I did a blonde on a hill and held the car on the clutch till I could smell it. I stopped there and held the clutch in for a few minutes to let the heat disperse with the engine idling. Fixed the problem for another month and it came back again....

Could using an EA 3 bolt clutch be causing the issues considering the EL has what, 30 or so KW more?
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:38 pm 
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moody wrote:
i found its driving style, if you slip your clutch the tiniest bit as in you keep the revs at say 800 till your clucth is all the way out, it goes away, if you just about let it die before you accelerate it shudders a tad....make any sense?


I've tried dozens of methods, the only thing that completely stops shudder is holding the revs above about 1500 while taking off, which is causes unnecessary wear on the clutch and it doesn't feel natural revving the engine that high to take off every day unless you're trying to leave the line very quickly...
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:37 am 
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Tact? LOL
I just tell it as it is man, no s**t from me.

When you installed it did you use a clutch aligning tool?
Was the box hard to get in, did you reef up and down on it to get it to slide home?
Seen quite a few who done that, it can put a slight bend in the clutch plate and cause shudder.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:27 am 
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Bozz wrote:
Could using an EA 3 bolt clutch be causing the issues considering the EL has what, 30 or so KW more?
Well this is the setup I'll be using in my EL - I've talked to a few clutch places, and they reckon that setup will be fine, preferably use a heavy duty clutch and pressure plate. Maybe ask a few trans/clutch workshops yourself to confirm - these guys do it for a living, so they should know.
Shudder is best checked reversing up an incline - check your engine mounts front and rear, and the mounting of the gearbox, bellhousing, pressure plate, etc. I take it a new pilot bearing was fitted at the rear of the crank.
Off topic: Make sure your throwout bearing has a slight clearance between it and the pressure plate fingers when released - they weren't designed to continually spin at engine RPM - it'll eventually fry and seize, and boy, they do some damage. You'll find the only spec given in the books is the pedal distance to the floor, might be fine, but check the throwout bearing clearance.
Anyway, enough droning - someone else might have some ideas.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:44 am 
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Walker wrote:
Tact? LOL
I just tell it as it is man, no s**t from me.

When you installed it did you use a clutch aligning tool?
Was the box hard to get in, did you reef up and down on it to get it to slide home?
Seen quite a few who done that, it can put a slight bend in the clutch plate and cause shudder.


Its all good, I just love "its gotta be the driver" type posts when theres an issue like this :)

I've never used or needed a clutch aligning tool, if you can't align a clutch up by feel, you shouldn't be doing the job. I've also never rested the gearbox on the clutch until it was fully inserted into the spigot bearing. The T5 isnt a heavy box so its a piece of cake to put it on your chest and raise it into place.

What you're saying makes sense but I dont think it would apply to my case..
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:00 am 
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Bozz wrote:
Could using an EA 3 bolt clutch be causing the issues considering the EL has what, 30 or so KW more?


I would have suggested that. There is a reason Ford made the clutch larger and used 6 bolts to hold the sucker down for the EB2's.

I had a fun time pulling my boat and jetski around when I had a manual, and that was using the correct clutch. Careful driving up the ramp still produced a hot clutch, but not as hot if I had been pulling something up weighing the 1500kg or more. And dont forget towing capacity would be around the 1200kg mark.

ebturb on these forums has a EB2 with the EB2 flywheel and an XR6 clutch. He gives it hell... Drags, high rpm clutch dumps, towing, etc, etc, and its never shuddered, never burned or smelled. We took the clutch out 2 weeks ago to find after 2 years of use the friction plate was only 50% worn and flywheel was as it was when we put it in.

So, maybe get your flywheel drilled to take a 6 bolt clutch and try the correct clutch for the job. Or lash out on a new flywheel from Fraud, they are about $150.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:44 am 
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Quote:
if you can't align a clutch up by feel, you shouldn't be doing the job.

LOL... You gotta be kidding me?
By "FEEL"? How do you feel a clutch?
If you don't have an aligner then best is by eye, aligning the centre of the clutch to the centre of the crank, if you're a cpl of mm out then you have a hard time getting the box in and can bend the plate as i stated earlier.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Walker wrote:
Quote:
if you can't align a clutch up by feel, you shouldn't be doing the job.

LOL... You gotta be kidding me?
By "FEEL"? How do you feel a clutch?
If you don't have an aligner then best is by eye, aligning the centre of the clutch to the centre of the crank, if you're a cpl of mm out then you have a hard time getting the box in and can bend the plate as i stated earlier.


No, you line up the pressure plate with the clutch plate, making sure the clutch plate is centred behind the pressure plate, its not that hard to do - thats how i did my EA, and the box slid in spot on.

As far as the shuddering, my EA does the exact same thing, and so does my mates AU ute which we just put a new clutch in, and machined the flywheel.
Just put up with it, let the clutch out quicker and you will find the shudder wont be nearly as bad.
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:24 pm 
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my 5ltr does it too, and I used a clutch aligning tool. One thing of interest that I found in the Ford Racing Motorsport catolog is that the bell housing to block face is sometimes not parallel to the bellhousing to box face. This can be cured with shims and needs to be checked with a dial indicator as well as bellhousing runout. Just my 2c s**t oppinion

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:44 pm 
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66 coupe wrote:
Walker wrote:
Quote:
if you can't align a clutch up by feel, you shouldn't be doing the job.

LOL... You gotta be kidding me?
By "FEEL"? How do you feel a clutch?
If you don't have an aligner then best is by eye, aligning the centre of the clutch to the centre of the crank, if you're a cpl of mm out then you have a hard time getting the box in and can bend the plate as i stated earlier.


No, you line up the pressure plate with the clutch plate, making sure the clutch plate is centred behind the pressure plate, its not that hard to do - thats how i did my EA, and the box slid in spot on.

As far as the shuddering, my EA does the exact same thing, and so does my mates AU ute which we just put a new clutch in, and machined the flywheel.
Just put up with it, let the clutch out quicker and you will find the shudder wont be nearly as bad.

That's exactly how my aligner works, it doesn't go into the spiggot, it clamps the clutch plate to pressure plate and holds it in place till you bolt it up. I've had it for about 15 years and cost me f**k all.
Why bust your balls when you don't have to!

That's pretty f**k up Jaysen, you'd think they'd setup their tooling to get it right lol.
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