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XR6T Engine/Tranny/CPU/Loom into EF 

 

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 Post subject: XR6T Engine/Tranny/CPU/Loom into EF
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:42 pm 
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I may be getting my hands on some stuff that one of my close mates is getting rid of at a very nice price... 8-)

XR6T engine (including all accesories) :D
also either the 5 or 6 speed manual (Not 100% which it is)
With all looms, hoses, etc
also tailshaft if i need to change mine

if i have all the BA looms and wiring will there be any problems with getting this engine running in my car?
Is there any problems with the wiring that connects to the ignition barrell?

i also know the problem about the sump... are there any places that have modified the sump for the BA to fit EF as yet?

From what i have seen on this site i dont think i have heard of any of the regulars on here that have completed this
so i just want to know if there will be any brick walls in front of me considering i would be looking at changing over all of the looms and everything with it

one problem i can think of is trying to get my existing climate control to work... anyway of keep that going?

would i have to usa a BA cluster?
would the speedo/tacho/other guages be correct?

im not sure if im correct but is the engine loom and the accesories loom seperate?
could i keep my existing loom behind my dash for all my accesories and cluster?
then just change the loom and computer for the enginge/transmission? :?

Another one i read about is the accelerator cable would have to be modified as well, maybe using an AU manifold/TB or something...

i just want to know all the issues that would come up so that i can tackle them
the only one i am worried about is structural modifications like the k-frame/sump and bonnet...

i know we have some very smart people on here
so thanks in advance :wink:

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:52 pm 
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At the risk of sounding like a smart a** i'm going to make a statement that i hope you take in the best light possible:

You are either committed to doing it or not. END OF STORY.

Decide to do it and we will back you 100% of the way and assist where possible. Until then its just wanking on like the eleventybillion other threads on this topic.

I've got my BA engine and have just built a c10 to go behind it. Thats as far as i've managed. If you happen to get access to stripping an entire XR6t then i can't see why you couldn't complete the job with some electrical assistance.

do it

 

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 Post subject: Re: XR6T Engine/Tranny/CPU/Loom into EF
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:02 pm 
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JohnnyFX wrote:

if i have all the BA looms and wiring will there be any problems with getting this engine running in my car?
Is there any problems with the wiring that connects to the ignition barrell?


Its not really confirmed to my knowledge, you need the edit on the stock ECU to get it to work without the rest of the electronics. i guess this bypasses smartsheild and so would work with your barrel... nut not 100% sure.

JohnnyFX wrote:
i also know the problem about the sump... are there any places that have modified the sump for the BA to fit EF as yet?


no custom sumps that i have seen, due to the oil pump pickup position theres only a small amount of room for the sump to be modified, this is not to say it can't be done, just that it may cause complications.

JohnnyFX wrote:
From what i have seen on this site i dont think i have heard of any of the regulars on here that have completed this
so i just want to know if there will be any brick walls in front of me considering i would be looking at changing over all of the looms and everything with it


no one on here to my knowledge has done the conversion using the stock BA ECU, for that reason there are a lot of things left un answered.
i think you'll run into quite a number of complications doing the conversion, might be worth thinking about an aftermarket ECU as it would simplify a lot of the problems.


JohnnyFX wrote:
one problem i can think of is trying to get my existing climate control to work... anyway of keep that going?


climate control mainly uses BEM controls, it may have 1 or 2 sensors that come from the stock ECU (temp sensors & A/c related)
i can't see this being a major issue though, worst case is you run both ECU's.

JohnnyFX wrote:
would i have to usa a BA cluster?
would the speedo/tacho/other guages be correct?

again, depends what you decide to do with the ECU.
the speedo sensor works differently on BA's (wheel sensors) unless its from a ute, tacho could still work if you kept stock ECU, but i don't imagine a tacho signal being to hard to sort out.
voltage, fuel, oil pressure have their own sensors so would remain stand alone, temp, again depending on what the BA ECU outputs, i imagine its a data stream so stock ECU might be needed to keep this happy.

JohnnyFX wrote:
im not sure if im correct but is the engine loom and the accesories loom seperate?
could i keep my existing loom behind my dash for all my accesories and cluster?
then just change the loom and computer for the enginge/transmission? :?


thats the case on your current car, i'm not sure what the loom setup is like on BA's, but i imagine it'd be fairly similar or atleast workable. i wouldn't expect it to be straight forward though.


JohnnyFX wrote:
Another one i read about is the accelerator cable would have to be modified as well, maybe using an AU manifold/TB or something...


if you're using the BA ECU you may be able to setup the fly by wire, if not you'd have to install an standard throttle body, i imagine there'd be complications with this as there wouldn't be a TPS signal... kinda a complicated part i guess.

this is all based on my limited knowledge, some may be innacurate, but its a start :)

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:59 pm 
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I think in a post i saw the otherday xr8_Dismantler said he was comptemplating getting a few moddified Custom K-Frames Made up with a engineer :)... anyways M8 Good luck with it hope you get it done write up a Doco if ya do :) Ask Phongus about a few things if ya need anything he look'd into this mod and might be able to help ya
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:13 am 
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well i would love to give it a go
but my dad is straight onto the negative side... 'why are you doing this... why are you wasting so much money...'
he used to be a mechanic and now CBF touching cars
but obviously he lends a hand when he knows im stuck :P

Yeah i went through phongus' thread... just wanted to know if there was any new info coz i think he got scared and dropped the idea hehehe

theres a couple of other things in the back of my mind as well
1) my dad wants his garage back lol
i have parts everywhere but all in order so i dont want him moving them around
2) the fact that my car has been off the road for 19 months already and i really dont want to make it longer :cry:

but if i can find all the problems before attempting and make it easier for myself i will give it a go

the k-frame is the part that is really bothering me because i dont want an unroadworthy vehicle like JETXR
i guess i may ask the girl at work to set me up with her engineering buddy and speak to him if possible because she said he has helped her with a lot of stuff

another question is... can i use my block and attach the XR6T head, cams, chain and other goodies onto that? is that possible? has anyone brought that up yet?
so that the oil pump/pick up and sump fit without modifying the k-frame?
or just using what ever internals fit from the XR6T engine to update mine and then bolt on the other stuff? is that going too far? would i need an aftermarket ECU?

but i do have access to an XR6T Ute so the speedo may work?
say i was to do a complete swap of engine bay and interior, should everything work seeing as i have used all the BA stuff and just changed to my shell?
Also modify my plastic dash face to integrate the BA climate control buttons and screen
i guess thats an easier way of looking at it? (see picture attached)

i just want to make sure its worth it just in case it doesnt work

and if people are going to say why do all that instead of buying a BA
look at the site you are on... ford mods... its about modifying your car and trying to make yours different from the rest... all depends how far you want to go

 

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:26 am 
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you cant just swap the top end of the motor to the EF block. If you could, dont you think most of us would have done that by now?

But top idea dude and keep it up. Love the car btw.

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:54 am 
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No 1) Tell your dad he may as well build another shed if he wants room lol.....
No 2) if youve kept it license up it's all good might take a while but imagine the the spoils of what you could and would acheive

BTW thats one sweet paint job Noice and good paintshop skills too :)
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:12 am 
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JohnnyFX wrote:
the k-frame is the part that is really bothering me because i dont want an unroadworthy vehicle like JETXR
i guess i may ask the girl at work to set me up with her engineering buddy and speak to him if possible because she said he has helped her with a lot of stuff


JETXR had more issues then just the kframe to be legal... thats just 1 hurdle.

JohnnyFX wrote:
another question is... can i use my block and attach the XR6T head, cams, chain and other goodies onto that? is that possible? has anyone brought that up yet?
so that the oil pump/pick up and sump fit without modifying the k-frame?
or just using what ever internals fit from the XR6T engine to update mine and then bolt on the other stuff? is that going too far? would i need an aftermarket ECU?


nope... way different


JohnnyFX wrote:
but i do have access to an XR6T Ute so the speedo may work?


i think this would be the last of your worries to be honest.

JohnnyFX wrote:
say i was to do a complete swap of engine bay and interior, should everything work seeing as i have used all the BA stuff and just changed to my shell?
Also modify my plastic dash face to integrate the BA climate control buttons and screen
i guess thats an easier way of looking at it? (see picture attached)


if you did this then yes.... it would be simpler... but a lot more work.
and a lot more time off the road.
i also don't know how much you could pull the ICC down to make it fit where you want it.

if i were you.. i'd get the car on the road and enjoy it for a while.

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:26 am 
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EFFalcon wrote:
if i were you.. i'd get the car on the road and enjoy it for a while.

I agree.
Plus, I'd hazard a guess that there'll be more information about this sort of conversion trickling out in the future.

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:51 am 
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Do it mate dead set go for it! would be sweet as, like you said its "FordMods"

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:11 am 
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EFFalcon i know JETXR had other problems but i was just stating that i do want my car roadworthy unlike his
thats why i want to do everything right
i wasnt just pointing out the k-frame because i know there was more

well seeing as i do have access to the whole ute (i think) it does sound like a good idea to swap everything over to make it easier

in that case the only problems i can think of would be:
1) k-frame
2) bonnet
3) power windows (would i have to swap anything or just connect the wires?)
4) power mirrors (can i use my existing ones?)
5) fuel pump (will it work?)
6) Rear demister (im guessing this should be ok)
7) climate control (will it work properly?)
8) Fuel Door (I think this should be ok as well)
9) Boot Release (Should be ok)
10) Electric Antenna height button?

just mainly have to make sure that all the electrics would work

I dont think people can really answer the questions above because im not sure if anyone has gone that far
but im guessing with most of the list above it may be as easy as connecting up the correct wiring to make them all work properly because i assume they would be very similar...

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:48 pm 
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JohnnyFX wrote:
in that case the only problems i can think of would be:
1) k-frame
2) bonnet
3) power windows (would i have to swap anything or just connect the wires?)
4) power mirrors (can i use my existing ones?)
5) fuel pump (will it work?)
6) Rear demister (im guessing this should be ok)
7) climate control (will it work properly?)
8) Fuel Door (I think this should be ok as well)
9) Boot Release (Should be ok)
10) Electric Antenna height button?


1: obviously an issue, depends what comes up in the future.
2: XR front, low series bonnet so deffinate issues, but now really a road worthy issue, a bulge or similar will take care of it.
3: should just be a matter of changing wiring plugs
4: same deal, should work fairly easily with a combination of parts
5: will need upgrading
6: just gets timed 12v, BA should be the same.
7: if standard BEM is kept, then should work
8: only a switch, should be easy
9: as above
10: BEM controlled, as per 7.

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:22 pm 
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ok 1 & 2 are obviously the hard ones
maybe i can modify my existing bonnet so that it fits?
my godfather has been a panel beater for 30 years maybe he could do something instead of trying to put on a huge bonnet buldge on a slim looking car?
so ill need a more powerful fuel pump? ok easy done i guess

now the BEM i am guessing is the large module that sits next to the steering column?
so if i use the BA loom/modules, use the BA climate control buttons and screen seeing as i would be looking at a full swap i guess that would be ok :?
but the antenna i can get rid of i suppose, cover the antenna hole and spray it
Then get one that can sit on my parcel shelf if those internal antennas are any good?

hopefully the questions im asking are helping others out as well
just seems a hell of a lot easier changing everything rather than trying to mix and match things

so looks to me the costs would be in modified k-frame (if FTG auto are able to sell them would be as they said about $500), modify and respray the bonnet (im guessing around $500), more powerful fuel pump (around the $150-$200 unless i can use the BA one) and maybe another couple of small things.
So even if you have everything from the BA it may still cost between $1000 - $1500
and this is the cheap way... but i guess the engine will last a lot longer than a stock EF/EL 4.0L

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:45 pm 
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this much effort for the XR6T, with the whole project finished should be sweet, im comtemplating about putting an AU III XR6 VCT in to my EF (nothing to big) im guessing it wont need as much modding as the XR6T?
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Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:18 am 
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I just want to ask are all BA blocks the same between XT-XR6-XR6T??
and just the internals different??

apart from the k-frame and bonnet, does anyone know of any other roadworthy issues of running a XR6T engine in a previous model?
because i have even seen a GENIII V8 in an XY
As long as i am running all the sensors and other bits and pieces should it all be fine with EPA and any other obstacles? :?

im thinking of maybe putting my car together the way it is for now and then worry about changing the engine and stuff a bit later on when i am ready to do that

but i will keep everything from the BA that i will use so im not going to cancel the project compeltely

i do want to enjoy my car a bit and maybe over winter do this conversion
but i will still be looking into everything up until that time

I will be customising my interior to try and install the BA gear with a spare EF dash
i have decided to try relocate my dvd unit to where the EF climate control is because it is touch screen which would make it easier to reach
Also while in the process relocate the demister button, get rid of the antenna button and have a normal internal antenna on the parcel shelf or something along those lines
Also to make my dvd unit fit i will have to make the air con vent opening narrower under the trip computer and use smaller vents like the ones behind the centre console
Then i will have the BA screen with BA climate control buttons where the radio normally sits in the EF

so in the mean time i will buy a spare dash and start working on that and trying to learn as much about the electrics and computer in the car as i go along

its a long process but hey i like being different :)

 

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