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Batteries and Amps 

 

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 Post subject: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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hi all, i will soon be getting some amps to power the speakers and subs in my car and i was wondering how many batteries i will need to power the amps? I will be getting one 500 watt amp and four 300 watt amps. Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
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i would just get a 2 farrad capacitor and run 0/2 gauge cable from the battery to it then 4 gauge from the capacitor to each amp, or u could just put another battery in the boot, has a simmilar effect.

cheers,
Tomo

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:28 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ok thanks. Would that be the same if i was running just two 500 watt amps
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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*Sigh*

'Max watts' means nothing. You need to learn to read things in 'RMS', thats a measurement of the real power available.

You dont need another battery. Or four amps. A FOUR channel amplifier will do FOUR speakers.
You will only need TWO amps. Amp one, a 2 or 4 channel to do your front speakers. You dont amp rears.
The second amp will be a MONO BLOCK. Its used for your sub.

Wiring use 4 gauge, it will be more than enough. 4g from battery to boot, with a fuse in the engine bay close to the battery. Split it in the boot with a distribution block to each amp, then also use 4g to earth each.



Just go google it :|

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:46 pm 
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krisisdog wrote:
*Sigh*

'Max watts' means nothing. You need to learn to read things in 'RMS', thats a measurement of the real power available.

You dont need another battery. Or four amps. A FOUR channel amplifier will do FOUR speakers.
You will only need TWO amps. Amp one, a 2 or 4 channel to do your front speakers. You dont amp rears.
The second amp will be a MONO BLOCK. Its used for your sub.

Wiring use 4 gauge, it will be more than enough. 4g from battery to boot, with a fuse in the engine bay close to the battery. Split it in the boot with a distribution block to each amp, then also use 4g to earth each.




+1^^^^^^

i agree completely, running a capacitor doesn't hurt though, stops the lights from dimming when the bass kicks in, amoung other things.


just realised about the battery and the power cable, i was thinkin about what im doin to mine lol

cheers,
Tomo

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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RMS values also mean very little by themselves, you need to also know under what testing conditions they exposed the amp to to get those figures. If you are putting new speakers in the back, why the hell wouldn't you want to provide some decent power to them too?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:43 pm 
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haggis wrote:
RMS values also mean very little by themselves, you need to also know under what testing conditions they exposed the amp to to get those figures. If you are putting new speakers in the back, why the hell wouldn't you want to provide some decent power to them too?

Because they drag the sound stage back and make the music sound retarded.
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:53 pm 
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haggis wrote:
RMS values also mean very little by themselves, you need to also know under what testing conditions they exposed the amp to to get those figures. If you are putting new speakers in the back, why the hell wouldn't you want to provide some decent power to them too?


Erm, no, they actually mean what you need to know, you only really need to be aware of the RMS @ what voltage, as some are tested at 16v. Most are at 14.4 or 13.8v though.
And I'll assume since you suggested amping the rears you dont really know what you're talking about.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:13 pm 
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I don't know...I amp my rear speakers...and it doesn't drag the stage back...I just happen to set the gain a little higher up front and move the fader forward to get front stage. At the same time I can have the full potential of both front and rear speakers.

If you already have a 4 channel amp and a mono block amp, then I guess it's okay to run all speakers from the amps as long as you set it up correctly. I see people cranking the gain up to maximum for maximum loudness, but damn it sounded ugly.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I cant see why you need to amp rears though, they go plenty loud off the head deck.

If you've got a 4ch, bridge it, and then run the fronts from it, ~ twice the power!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:28 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Quoting RMS at 1khz is different to the RMS output playing 20hz-20khz. But you knew that didn't you. Then you also have to compare at what level of distortion is introduced by outputting at that power level. But you knew that as well didn't you.

A speaker is a speaker and while you might be happy to just move the sound to the front, some people are going to expect the same output from their fronts as they are from their rears, and if you can provide 100 watts to the fronts and only 20 to the rears, you're going to damage speakers and or the amplifier trying to reach the SPL you want. This is especially true if you use speakers with a low sensitivity. But you knew that too didn't you.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:48 pm 
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I knew that :P

But we're trying to teach people how to make their systems sound BETTER. I always thought 4 equal volume speakers and some bass was an optimal system until I heard and then installed a system that is primarily focused on the front stage and sub or purely front stage and sub in the end... I had a single set of front speakers and 2 subs that sounded better and went louder than all my friends with their 4 equally balanced speakers and subs... And those comments were coming from them, not me.

But yes, in theory you should give a speaker it's rated power so you don't clip the amp and risk damaging the speaker. But if you fade the rear speakers down so they only add a little bit then the crappy 20W from the head unit is sufficient.
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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:17 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I cant argue with what you said as its true, but you are missing the point.... which Stone summed up pretty well.
I think you'll find most RMS values are in fact 20hz-20khz, which makes them comparable and usable data when researching and setting up a system.
If you understood how music is recorded, and therefore designed to be listened to, you would realise how much sense it makes to draw the sound stage as far forward as you can in the car...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:44 am 
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krisisdog wrote:
I cant see why you need to amp rears though, they go plenty loud off the head deck.

If you've got a 4ch, bridge it, and then run the fronts from it, ~ twice the power!


I guess I could, but my front speakers aren't uber powerful. They are getting the correct RMS power required before I blow it to bits. 3/4 gain for the front for no distortion at full volume on head unit and 1/2 gain on rears as to not over power fronts. Bass has it's own controller...if I want to be more fully sick, I boost the bass using the controller.

If I had better front speakers which require more juice than what a single channel can give out, then yes I would bridge it to make the most out of it :).

 

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 Post subject: Re: Batteries and Amps
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:35 am 
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phongus wrote:
krisisdog wrote:
I cant see why you need to amp rears though, they go plenty loud off the head deck.

If you've got a 4ch, bridge it, and then run the fronts from it, ~ twice the power!


I guess I could, but my front speakers aren't uber powerful. They are getting the correct RMS power required before I blow it to bits. 3/4 gain for the front for no distortion at full volume on head unit and 1/2 gain on rears as to not over power fronts. Bass has it's own controller...if I want to be more fully sick, I boost the bass using the controller.

If I had better front speakers which require more juice than what a single channel can give out, then yes I would bridge it to make the most out of it :).

Having more power on tap than speakers require is actually a good thing. It gives you some headroom so that the dynamics in the music don't cause clipping (amplifier distortion) even when you're at high volumes.

Your gain is set incorrectly... You say you have it set so that your head unit can get to full volume before distortion... Have a read of this: Tutorial - Amplifier Gain & Crossover Adjustment
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