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Sound system sounding horrible? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Sound system sounding horrible?
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:08 am 
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ILLaViTaR wrote:
I have a ED falcon GLi Classic and have recently put in some Pioneer 160R component splits (Pioneers best speakers). I also put in a Pioneer 6950IB head unit, back speakers are stock.

Now even though the back speakers are s**t for some reason the fronts distort even with the backs turned off.

Also they just sound cheap and distort easy, the speakers are in perfect condition.

What could be causing this (I also wired it myself but I'm pretty sure I done it correctly.


look man just get rid of rear speakers and just look at your wiring that u done cause if u have 1 + on a - it well F***** up as well and you have 2 make sure it's the same 4 the rear 2 ok so u just have 2 make sure the + off the H/U is on + on the speakers 4 the best sound

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:15 am 
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phongus wrote:
krisisdog wrote:
Pioneers distort at about that.

headunit is 50 watts MAX, bout 15rms.
ok well 50W max power is the highest power output on a H/U and there 4 15rms is the highest rms u can have ok

Actually...Pioneer head units supply the highest RMS outputs...which is about 25-30 I believe, but I could be wrong. sorry i wish u where right but yer i'v looked 4 better

ILLaViTaR if you plan on getting a sub down the track...but want to keep costs low, then get a 4 channel amp as krisisdog said, wire the splits up using 2 channels and bridge the other 2 remaining channels for a single sub. A 4 channel amp is also good in the long run if you want to upgrade later on. you can keep the 4 channel to power your front and rear speakers (once you get aftermarket ones) and then buy a separate amp for the sub/subs.

Quote:
What is a mono lol?


The amp that is mainly made for subwoofers are mono blocks. They are a single channel amp with high outputs.

Quote:
So channel wise I'd have front speakers on 1 channel, back speakers on 1 channel and sub or subs on 2 channels totalling 4?


No. 1 channel PER speaker...not 1 channel per pair of speakers. So 1 channel for the front left speaker, and 1 channel for the front right speaker and then the remaining 2 channels can be either bridged to power a sub, or individual channels to power the rear speakers, wired the same as the front speakers. But if you want to power the rear speakers by an amp, make sure you have aftermarket speakers, the stocks won't last long if you plan to blast the speakers.

hope that helps

phong =P~
and sorry 2 say ok 2 all of yous but amps 4 speakers ant the world best thing 2 do all the time ok unless your in a sound off comp but if u get the H/U's + on the + speakers all the sound well b 100% and as 4 going up in volume every speaker well get a lil F*****t ok but yer not wise 2 do all the time ever if your speakers are on a amp ok

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:55 am 
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XR_Fairmont wrote:
and sorry 2 say ok 2 all of yous but amps 4 speakers ant the world best thing 2 do all the time ok unless your in a sound off comp but if u get the H/U's + on the + speakers all the sound well b 100% and as 4 going up in volume every speaker well get a lil F*****t ok but yer not wise 2 do all the time ever if your speakers are on a amp ok


...type English much?

Umm it is always better to have an amp running high powered speakers then straight from the head unit. Even if the polarity is correct, distortion will occur.

My front component speakers don't distort when I have it on high volume with an amp, but did distort when it just ran off the head unit. So there is a difference. So long as you're not over powering the speakers to the point the blow, they are always going to sound better with an amp.

If you plan on buying the top of the range component speakers and not doing things properly, it is pretty much a waste of money. I'm sure people upgrade their speakers for better sound rather then distortion.

phong =P~

 

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 Post subject: Re: Sound system sounding horrible?
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:56 pm 
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XR_Fairmont wrote:
ILLaViTaR wrote:
I have a ED falcon GLi Classic and have recently put in some Pioneer 160R component splits (Pioneers best speakers). I also put in a Pioneer 6950IB head unit, back speakers are stock.

Now even though the back speakers are s**t for some reason the fronts distort even with the backs turned off.

Also they just sound cheap and distort easy, the speakers are in perfect condition.

What could be causing this (I also wired it myself but I'm pretty sure I done it correctly.


look man just get rid of rear speakers and just look at your wiring that u done cause if u have 1 + on a - it well F***** up as well and you have 2 make sure it's the same 4 the rear 2 ok so u just have 2 make sure the + off the H/U is on + on the speakers 4 the best sound


I used my existing wiring.

I have split boxes that came with my fronts.

I ran my headunit to the amplifier part of the split box.

Then my speakers to the woofer section and my tweeters to the tweeter section (positive on -3db).

I tried swapping the pos and neg over but got no sound dofference at all (the headunit cable at the split box).
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:36 pm 
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XR_Fairmont wrote:
and sorry 2 say ok 2 all of yous but amps 4 speakers ant the world best thing 2 do all the time ok unless your in a sound off comp but if u get the H/U's + on the + speakers all the sound well b 100% and as 4 going up in volume every speaker well get a lil F*****t ok but yer not wise 2 do all the time ever if your speakers are on a amp ok


Man STFU when you dont know what you're talking about alright? Alright good.

What the hell does a speaker amp have to do with a sound off comp? Sound off = decibels = sub(s)+mono(s). Generally you turn your speakers OFF in a sound off comp.

Also theres nothing wrong with having rear speakers, they add fill, and as long as they arent over powering the fronts they are good. In a Falcon it sounds mighty strange not having rears, but in something small like a Barina it might be fine to run no rears. Once again, keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.

You do realise that the internal HU amp distorts long before its preouts do, which sends the signal to the amp right? Didnt think so.


Illavitar
The box you speak off is known as a crossover box, it simply separates the frequency's which will be sent to the tweeter and mid. Theres normally a few resistors in there, and high freq's are sent to your tweet, whilst anything below that and (depending on model) above the subbass region are sent to the mid.

99% of components/splits, which is what you have, will require an amp to perform anywhere near their true potential, which is why the crossover box has 'Amplifier' as an input. Its not recommended to run splits off a HU.

If you are confident that you have everything correctly wired up, fitted and mounted securely, and you still don't have the sound you're after, its time to invest in an amp.

Do you have the EQ (custom or preset) on or LOUD on in the HUs settings? If you do try turning that off/or flat for the EQ, and seeing if that makes any difference.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 pm 
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XR_Fairmont wrote:
phongus wrote:
krisisdog wrote:
Pioneers distort at about that.

headunit is 50 watts MAX, bout 15rms.
ok well 50W max power is the highest power output on a H/U and there 4 15rms is the highest rms u can have ok

Actually...Pioneer head units supply the highest RMS outputs...which is about 25-30 I believe, but I could be wrong. sorry i wish u where right but yer i'v looked 4 better

ILLaViTaR if you plan on getting a sub down the track...but want to keep costs low, then get a 4 channel amp as krisisdog said, wire the splits up using 2 channels and bridge the other 2 remaining channels for a single sub. A 4 channel amp is also good in the long run if you want to upgrade later on. you can keep the 4 channel to power your front and rear speakers (once you get aftermarket ones) and then buy a separate amp for the sub/subs.

Quote:
What is a mono lol?


The amp that is mainly made for subwoofers are mono blocks. They are a single channel amp with high outputs.

Quote:
So channel wise I'd have front speakers on 1 channel, back speakers on 1 channel and sub or subs on 2 channels totalling 4?


No. 1 channel PER speaker...not 1 channel per pair of speakers. So 1 channel for the front left speaker, and 1 channel for the front right speaker and then the remaining 2 channels can be either bridged to power a sub, or individual channels to power the rear speakers, wired the same as the front speakers. But if you want to power the rear speakers by an amp, make sure you have aftermarket speakers, the stocks won't last long if you plan to blast the speakers.

hope that helps

phong =P~
and sorry 2 say ok 2 all of yous but amps 4 speakers ant the world best thing 2 do all the time ok unless your in a sound off comp but if u get the H/U's + on the + speakers all the sound well b 100% and as 4 going up in volume every speaker well get a lil F*****t ok but yer not wise 2 do all the time ever if your speakers are on a amp ok



Can we have that in English now???

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:51 pm 
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krisisdog wrote:
XR_Fairmont wrote:
and sorry 2 say ok 2 all of yous but amps 4 speakers ant the world best thing 2 do all the time ok unless your in a sound off comp but if u get the H/U's + on the + speakers all the sound well b 100% and as 4 going up in volume every speaker well get a lil F*****t ok but yer not wise 2 do all the time ever if your speakers are on a amp ok


Man STFU when you dont know what you're talking about alright? Alright good.

What the hell does a speaker amp have to do with a sound off comp? Sound off = decibels = sub(s)+mono(s). Generally you turn your speakers OFF in a sound off comp.

Also theres nothing wrong with having rear speakers, they add fill, and as long as they arent over powering the fronts they are good. In a Falcon it sounds mighty strange not having rears, but in something small like a Barina it might be fine to run no rears. Once again, keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.

You do realise that the internal HU amp distorts long before its preouts do, which sends the signal to the amp right? Didnt think so.


Illavitar
The box you speak off is known as a crossover box, it simply separates the frequency's which will be sent to the tweeter and mid. Theres normally a few resistors in there, and high freq's are sent to your tweet, whilst anything below that and (depending on model) above the subbass region are sent to the mid.

99% of components/splits, which is what you have, will require an amp to perform anywhere near their true potential, which is why the crossover box has 'Amplifier' as an input. Its not recommended to run splits off a HU.

If you are confident that you have everything correctly wired up, fitted and mounted securely, and you still don't have the sound you're after, its time to invest in an amp.

Do you have the EQ (custom or preset) on or LOUD on in the HUs settings? If you do try turning that off/or flat for the EQ, and seeing if that makes any difference.



I haven't heard a system yet that sounds right with rear speakers as opposed to a good front staged system, I myself have not run rears in 15yrs, I just concentrate on good solid fronts only.
As soon as the rears are audible it detracts from the front....

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:48 pm 
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Thats personal preference. A great setup usually still has rears, but is heavily faded to the front. I ran around with the rears off for a month or so, and didnt like it.
My rears are audible, yet they are not overpowering - they're running off the HU @ ~15-20rms, whilst the splits up front are getting ~60rms (soon to be double that).

I know what you're talking about though, mates got amped 6x9s and 6"s on the rear parcel shelf, with the front speakers mounted at the bottom of the door. My god does it sound like crap, but he likes it.... sortof.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:12 pm 
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I used to run 10's in the doors and 1's and 5's in the kick panels.
It sure did sound good but a bit too obvious for my liking with the pale grey door trims with black grilled 10's so I got rid of the set. Now I run twin 6's 1 of which is a coincident source 2 way in a 3 driver 2 way set up, it sounds good but not as good as the 3 way set....

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:21 pm 
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You've got an EF/L right?
I want to (when I have enough money/time/cud be F**k) modify the map pocket thingos on the door trims, put a 8-10" midbass in there, probably a 5.25" midrabge in the std speaker location, and a tweet (duno what type yet) in custom A pillar mounts. Should sound sweet as I reckon.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:25 pm 
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hmmm there's one problem.

When I swap the pos and neg on the split box it sounds the same.

Shouldn't it sound any different?
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:11 am 
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Did you change one speaker or both sides of the car? If you did both then they are wired in phase with each other, so itd still sound okay.
If you only wired up one side different then you *should* be able to tell theres a problem.

 

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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:53 am 
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krisisdog wrote:
You've got an EF/L right?
I want to (when I have enough money/time/cud be F**k) modify the map pocket thingos on the door trims, put a 8-10" midbass in there, probably a 5.25" midrabge in the std speaker location, and a tweet (duno what type yet) in custom A pillar mounts. Should sound sweet as I reckon.


Yes I have an EL, check out the pics....

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/tutorial ... 89-40.html

If you fit a big midbass and then fit the midrange in the standard location it will need to be a sealed back unit otherwise the midbass's rear waves will interfere with the cone of the midrange....

 

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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:14 pm 
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I thought something like that might happen, but didnt give it too much thought. Next time the trims of I'll see if I can figure something out. It'd be easier to seal off the midbass driver than the midrange no? Like make a thin MDF/fibreglass 'box' for it which sits in the door? Meh I dunno.

 

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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:40 pm 
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krisisdog wrote:
I thought something like that might happen, but didnt give it too much thought. Next time the trims of I'll see if I can figure something out. It'd be easier to seal off the midbass driver than the midrange no? Like make a thin MDF/fibreglass 'box' for it which sits in the door? Meh I dunno.


Absolutely not, it would be much easier to make an enclosure for the mid that way the midbass can use the whole door as an enclosure.
Better still mount you mids and tweeters in the kick panels that way the mids are further away and it keeps the difference between left and right less than if they were higher in the doors where the difference between lef and right is much greater....

 

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