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Will underpowering subs do them damage? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:34 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
Stone wrote:
SLY EL wrote:
I know it's not the conventional SPL gear, but I simply like the brand name and the look of their products, and the fact that they are better than most commercial brands like Pioneer, Clarion or Sony.

Pioneer goes alright in SPL... Read me


Read through the comments, to the actual record holder (set years before that Pioneer one - dodgy reporting).

1 sub, 4 amps for 180dB, vs Pioneers 13 subs and 52 amps for only 176dB (which is less than half as loud as 180db). Sounds like epic fail to me.


I thought it was something like 10 db is twice as loud? :?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:51 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
Stone wrote:
SLY EL wrote:
I know it's not the conventional SPL gear, but I simply like the brand name and the look of their products, and the fact that they are better than most commercial brands like Pioneer, Clarion or Sony.

Pioneer goes alright in SPL... Read me


Read through the comments, to the actual record holder (set years before that Pioneer one - dodgy reporting).

1 sub, 4 amps for 180dB, vs Pioneers 13 subs and 52 amps for only 176dB (which is less than half as loud as 180db). Sounds like epic fail to me.

I wasn't comparing it to DD. The guy stated that Pioneer was no good for SPL compared to Fusion so I pointed out that Pioneer actually have done pretty well in SPL.

Anyway, here's something else that explains that they hit 180.3dB with that vehicle and that equipment and another car hit 177.2dB with just two Pioneer 15" subs.

TimmyA wrote:
I thought it was something like 10 db is twice as loud? :?

A 3dB increase is twice as loud.
10dB is perceived as twice as loud to our ears because our hearing isn't linear.
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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:56 pm 
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TimmyA wrote:
I thought it was something like 10 db is twice as loud? :?

A 3dB increase is twice as loud.
10dB is perceived as twice as loud to our ears because our hearing isn't linear.[/quote]

Ah makes sense now... :D Logarithmic hearing scale... Same reason volume controls are all logarithmic, because then it sounds even to us... Linear volume controls sound uneven...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:21 pm 
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87SIlude wrote:
Well then that's a f**k of power. I don't get it.
I pulled 139 with a single kicker crv12" bridged to 2ohm running off a 800wrms OA mono. $270 sub. $280 amp. $180 box.
Under a grand for 139db. Under 1000wrms.
Why go so much power.
Just end up having to buy bigger amps, wiring, caps.


I call Bull5hit on this.
Show us a photo for proof.
I'm running 2 Kicker cvr12 2 ohm bridged to 2 ohms running off a kicker 750.1 rated at 940wrms and pulled a 135 with the box on the back seat firing forwards.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:38 pm 
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the sam wrote:
87SIlude wrote:
Well then that's a f**k of power. I don't get it.
I pulled 139 with a single kicker crv12" bridged to 2ohm running off a 800wrms OA mono. $270 sub. $280 amp. $180 box.
Under a grand for 139db. Under 1000wrms.
Why go so much power.
Just end up having to buy bigger amps, wiring, caps.


I call Bull5hit on this.
Show us a photo for proof.
I'm running 2 Kicker cvr12 2 ohm bridged to 2 ohms running off a kicker 750.1 rated at 940wrms and pulled a 135 with the box on the back seat firing forwards.


Box design could be the difference. I'm not gonna call s**t, seems a reasonable (and possible) difference to me.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:51 pm 
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True data mine,
But that is exactly what i took into account as well and that was the highest figure i could acheive...

Cheers

Sam

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:23 pm 
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Hi Guys,
I'm a bit new here but the short answer to the heading is... Yes.
Clipping, no dampening etc will all blow an underpowered driver.
So will too much power.
I have been involved in Pro audio for about 28yrs now and have a rather neat 8000 watt 24 channel FOH system which I hire out. (the worlds loudest iPod) as well as a very tidy 16 channel studio.
If you want LOUD then you have to drive each speaker with an appropriate amplifier.
More importantly you have to provide the speaker with the space to move. (I never take my PA subs to a gig indoors unless it's bigger than 1,000 people) no point. I think you'll find if you use a spectrum analyzer is that all of the SPL readings are still about 100-130 hz. Not real bass just lots of noise.
The best is JBL no argument, if you can afford them. I use Cerwin Vega now and am slowly replacing it with JBL.
Ganged up 10" drivers with dedicated amps will kill 12's or 15's in a car. I guarantee that.
Has anyone played with an "ISOBARIC" enclosure yet. I made one for my home theater sub and could not believe how good it was. Probably not going win an SPL contest, but if I want that I could put some of my stacks in the bathroom and get to the point of unbearable pain & bleeding ears, but it's the best bass I've heard that wasn't live.
I'm just using 4 x 6.5 JBL 2 ways and an 8" sub in my EL wagon and it kicks serious butt.
Placement and mounting are more important than power and size. My little studio monitors blow people minds but still only have 100w (good watts though) and are 6" 2 ways, good design and great position.
If you just want loud then get a 44 gallon drum and hit it with a pick handle.
A lot cheaper, as far as I'm concerned, I want to hear the music.

:)
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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:16 am 
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Isobaric enclosures aren't popular in car environments. Mainly due to the space they require to get them tuned right for a car.

As for SPL readings, most competition cars are 50-70Hz give or take. Larger cars (like Falcons and Commos) at the lower end of that scale, and smaller cars towards the top end. It is of course done that way to take advantage of room gain (cabin gain).

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:58 am 
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the sam wrote:
87SIlude wrote:
Well then that's a f**k of power. I don't get it.
I pulled 139 with a single kicker crv12" bridged to 2ohm running off a 800wrms OA mono. $270 sub. $280 amp. $180 box.
Under a grand for 139db. Under 1000wrms.
Why go so much power.
Just end up having to buy bigger amps, wiring, caps.


I call Bull5hit on this.
Show us a photo for proof.
I'm running 2 Kicker cvr12 2 ohm bridged to 2 ohms running off a kicker 750.1 rated at 940wrms and pulled a 135 with the box on the back seat firing forwards.


Well saddly I didn't ask for a print out of the decible meter. Because they don't have one... but it was 139.0db.
What box are you using. Is it ported?
I was using Option Audio front slot port. Same design and tuning and the mtx sledgehammer box.
And I didn't have it firing into the cabin because that usually makes a lower reading.
I had it firing into the boot with the 60 of the 40/60 seat down. The boot acting as a second enclosure and the using the cabin as a 3rd if you will.
Also I had put at least 1 hour into tuning the amp for one sweep I used. 40-65hrtz.
Had all my mids disconected.
Also I didn't have 2 400wrms(im pretty sure cvr's are 400wrms @2ohm) subs running of a 940wrms amp I had 1 running off a 800wrms mono.
Im telling you that's what I pulled and I don't need to say anymore to prove it.

Spl isn't a plug and play area, you need to take some time fine tuning.
And by the sounds of you're system you need a better box. If its a twin enclosure you really wanna make sure its ported and divided internally into 2 boxs. If its not that's why you pull s**t numbers, probs a autobarn box.
If I could upload videos id show you the excursion it was getting. By far the best sub I've owned.
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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:07 am 
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Jimmy Clark wrote:
The best is JBL no argument, if you can afford them. I use Cerwin Vega now and am slowly replacing it with JBL.

I had a JBL GTO1202D I believe. 12inch dvc 500wrms or something in a frontslot port box. It was a very good sub. Very strong. And damn loud. But it blew before I got to test it. (Had a party from my boot haha)
And there amps and speakers and good quality gear too.
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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:21 pm 
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87SIlude wrote:
Jimmy Clark wrote:
The best is JBL no argument, if you can afford them. I use Cerwin Vega now and am slowly replacing it with JBL.

I had a JBL GTO1202D I believe. 12inch dvc 500wrms or something in a frontslot port box. It was a very good sub. Very strong. And damn loud. But it blew before I got to test it. (Had a party from my boot haha)
And there amps and speakers and good quality gear too.


My speakers are all JBL in my car... Sound brilliant... The sub is pioneer as I couldn't get the JBL one... In terms of PA sound JBL make the best gear there too... Almighty dear though... :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Try a pair of these with 1200 REAL watts up them

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:32 pm 
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87SIlude wrote:
the sam wrote:
87SIlude wrote:
Well then that's a f**k of power. I don't get it.
I pulled 139 with a single kicker crv12" bridged to 2ohm running off a 800wrms OA mono. $270 sub. $280 amp. $180 box.
Under a grand for 139db. Under 1000wrms.
Why go so much power.
Just end up having to buy bigger amps, wiring, caps.


I call Bull5hit on this.
Show us a photo for proof.
I'm running 2 Kicker cvr12 2 ohm bridged to 2 ohms running off a kicker 750.1 rated at 940wrms and pulled a 135 with the box on the back seat firing forwards.


Well saddly I didn't ask for a print out of the decible meter. Because they don't have one... but it was 139.0db.
What box are you using. Is it ported?
I was using Option Audio front slot port. Same design and tuning and the mtx sledgehammer box.
And I didn't have it firing into the cabin because that usually makes a lower reading.
I had it firing into the boot with the 60 of the 40/60 seat down. The boot acting as a second enclosure and the using the cabin as a 3rd if you will.
Also I had put at least 1 hour into tuning the amp for one sweep I used. 40-65hrtz.
Had all my mids disconected.
Also I didn't have 2 400wrms(im pretty sure cvr's are 400wrms @2ohm) subs running of a 940wrms amp I had 1 running off a 800wrms mono.
Im telling you that's what I pulled and I don't need to say anymore to prove it.

Spl isn't a plug and play area, you need to take some time fine tuning.
And by the sounds of you're system you need a better box. If its a twin enclosure you really wanna make sure its ported and divided internally into 2 boxs. If its not that's why you pull s**t numbers, probs a autobarn box.
If I could upload videos id show you the excursion it was getting. By far the best sub I've owned.


No worries mate. Didnt mean to be rude, was just saying.
I built my box myself to the kicker specs, but it may have been because it was a twin setup in a single box. Box was ported and tuned to 38 Hz and i played a tester at 38 Hz to try and max it.
However i did find out later that my battery was on its way out. Might need to get a new run happening soon then.

I know what you mean. For the price these are the meanest SPL subs.

Cheers

Sam

 

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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Your peak frequency will be above the box's tuned frequency... You tune a box to say 38Hz to make a pea at 42, 43, 44Hz, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Will underpowering subs do them damage?
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:44 pm 
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I did run differing frequencies up to around 50Hz anyway.
Need to get back out there with the new box and battery then.

Cheers

Sam

 

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