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EF Climate Control + Airbag upgrade 

 

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 Post subject: EF Climate Control + Airbag upgrade
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:53 pm 
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Looks like I'm jumping on the band wagon,

Im about to do the climate control mod on a GLi Falcon (with abs).

I have obtained a fairmont ghia dash, I just want to know if this is all i need (wire wise).

I'm not installing the interior loom for the windows etc as I made my ownfor this.
Will my current body loom be ok with the faimont dash loom installed? (I'll be putting a fairmont body loom in at another date for factory windows)

As i said Im installing the entire faimont dash with the passenger airbag, it has the Green Hi series B.E.M, I'll remove the resistor on the cluster, and install an electric aerial, and adding the airbag to blanked resistor plug. is there likey to be any conflict with the hi bem? (yes i have the variable switch)

cheers
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:25 am 
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should be sweet to go mate!! good luck!

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:42 pm 
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bah, went and got the entire loom for the windows.
I want to 'be rid' of aftermarket wiring,
I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right?

ta, will take pic's!

cheers
Andrew

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Krytox wrote:
I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right?
Yep :P

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:23 pm 
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The only EL parts are the EL CC module, and the ambient air sensor.
All the rest of the parts are EF fairmont Ghia, including hi series BEM and Loom,

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:00 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
Krytox wrote:
I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right?
Yep :P


Nope.. They are different internally.

As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL.

EL vaccum packs are marked 96DA and have a blue cover.

EF vaccum packs are marked 94DA and have a black cover.

If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly.

But like anything there is a way around it... :D

When you get it done Andrew, try it first. You wont blow anything up. If it doesnt work properly, let me know and I'll tell you the trick. 8-)

And I'm hoping yours is an EF2... I cant remember. If not, it wont have the right airbag ECU or the extra wires for the PAB. If it is an EF2, it should have everything there.

And I think that the engine ECU is different for cars with climate control. Although I think no one has noticed this before, and hasnt caused a problem with any of the conversions.
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Just finished doing this myself good work. :P

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:04 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
Nope.. They are different internally."]
I've checked over the EF & EL circuit cards, and I couldn't see any physical difference, but if they are different, my mistake.

arm79 wrote:
As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL.If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly.
But like anything there is a way around it... "]
The only difference I can see on the black vac sol unit in the doco is that the blue and tan vaccy lines are vice versa compared with the blue unit. If this is the difference then yes control will be affected as tan controls screen/floor, and blue controls one of the front flaps.
Would the way around it be simply swapping around the tan and blue hoses? Am I on the right track?
Let us all know as I'd say the info would be handy to know now rather than later.

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:22 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
arm79 wrote:
Nope.. They are different internally."]
I've checked over the EF & EL circuit cards, and I couldn't see any physical difference, but if they are different, my mistake.


They arent different bu the logic is slightly.

snap0964 wrote:
arm79 wrote:
As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL.If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly.
But like anything there is a way around it...

The only difference I can see on the black vac sol unit in the doco is that the blue and tan vaccy lines are vice versa compared with the blue unit. If this is the difference then yes control will be affected as tan controls screen/floor, and blue controls one of the front flaps.
Would the way around it be simply swapping around the tan and blue hoses? Am I on the right track?
Let us all know as I'd say the info would be handy to know now rather than later.


The vaccum lines are exactly the same on EF and EL.

The difference is in the control for the face vent solenoid. On the EF units and vaccum packs I think the solenoid is a N/O, and the CC unit uses a ground signal to shut it to allow airflow to other directions, and a 12v signal to open it.

On EL units, the solenoid is a N/C type, and uses a ground signal to open the solenoid and a 12v signal to close it.

Im pretty sure this is the way it works. It was over 12 months ago that I worked out what the difference was.

So if you use an EL unit on an EF vaccum pack, it will open the solenoid when it shouldnt, and close it when it shouldn't. So when you select anything but face, will push air out the face level vents. When you select face, it will push air out of the front demister vents.
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Now I get the picture.
I'm using blue soleniod units for both my installs, so I'll be doing some thorough testing before the dash gets properly installed, with EF & EL units.

If I can I'll put together some detail on these differences, as they don't seem to be documented anywhere.

So thanks for bringing it up - particularly for troubleshooting benefit.

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:06 pm 
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Of course they arent documented anywhere, this is Ford we are talking about. :D

But in reality, I think whenever someone does this conversion, they get hold of all of the parts from the same car. Rarely piece by piece. So no one has ever noticed it.

Actually there was one bloke a little while back who did something like this, and didn't believe me that the units were different, but had the exact problems found when you put an EL unit into an EF.

I have a PM from Krytox saying he as a blue covered vaccum pack with a 94DA part number, not a 96DA part number. Ive never seen a 94DA with a blue cover, but I suppose it doesnt mean Ford did something fun. In which case, I would probably take more notice of the part number than the colour of the unit, unless it doesnt have the part number sticker.
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:52 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
Of course they arent documented anywhere, this is Ford we are talking about. :D
Yeah I was actually meaning the CC doco.
arm79 wrote:
But in reality, I think whenever someone does this conversion, they get hold of all of the parts from the same car. Rarely piece by piece. So no one has ever noticed it.
All the installs on the forum have been like this - so that's what I thought also.
arm79 wrote:
Actually there was one bloke a little while back who did something like this, and didn't believe me that the units were different, but had the exact problems found when you put an EL unit into an EF
I'd assume DF/NF & DL/NL units will behave the same way.
arm79 wrote:
I have a PM from Krytox saying he as a blue covered vaccum pack with a 94DA part number, not a 96DA part number. Ive never seen a 94DA with a blue cover, but I suppose it doesnt mean Ford did something fun. In which case, I would probably take more notice of the part number than the colour of the unit, unless it doesnt have the part number sticker.
Both mine are 96DA blues.
Installing CC to an XH is a bit of a challenge, so another's not going to stop me too much. :P
I take it your way around it as you mentioned previously would be to swap vaccy hoses over ???

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Sorry... Should have realised you meant the climate control doco... I just kinda came out of a 3.5 hour meeting, and my brain is all mush. :?

Yes NF/DF and NL/DL stuff will behave the same. They are the same units.

The fix has to do with adding a 5 pin relay just behind the CC unit to reverse the signal. I cant remember the exact wiring colours and how to do it... But a quick check of my manual will tell me, and I can draw something up.

But I would just try put it in first and see what happens, before making some cuts into the loom.
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:06 pm 
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Yeah thanks Adrian, I intended to do as you said just check first. The changeover relay should be easy enough to do - I've done similar for a clutch cruise switch.
Thanks again for the info . . . .

 

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97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:36 pm 
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Climate control Installed!

I think they should be called Climax Control, one awesome upgrade, probably the most rewarding thing i have ever done to the car

1: its not that time consuming
2: its pretty darn simple
3: makes the aircon pump longer and better controlled and give you longer cold air!

It took longer to clean all the crap check bulbs.

A big thank-you to all that has replied giving me information!

Cheers Ford Mods!

Andrew

 

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