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Keep sounds going during engine start?!... 

 

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 Post subject: Keep sounds going during engine start?!...
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Okay, here's another one for the electrofreaks out there...

I am planning to rig up a second battery to keep the power running smoothly during motor startup.

The idea is

:idea: to provide constant power to stereo, dvd, and the kids games in back :idea:
This is a good idea as whenever I want to start car I have to wait for kids to finish a stage on their game. Annoyingly, the DVD system I have takes a while to re-load the DVD. Also annoying is the fact that if you're playing media from a memory stick it will revert back to the beginning of the memory stick every time. And when you have Monty Pythons Quest for the Holy Grail along with 120 minutes of football match, 300 songs and 50 music videos on the memory stick you can see why it reverting back to the start is annoying. (PLUS - I am getting sick of the opening few bars of BECKS "I'm a looser baby, so why don't you kill me..."!!!!

Anybody in the know? I just need power to remain constant to accessories whilst the starter motor is going...

Can I just rig up a small 12v battery somewhere with a DIODE or two to stop it "helping" with the starter motor?



You see, I have a slightly overheating old EF motor and it just doesn't like being left running whenever I jump out for five minutes!!!

Last edited by fiend on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:30 pm 
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if u can get some big capacitors, may be better than another battery because you wouldnt want gasses in the boot or interior

i think you might have a hard time installing another battery in the engine bay man, i thought of doing it to my ef wagon.... didn't bother, but yeah... some big caps.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:23 pm 
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If after talking to a number of people more knowledgable about your specific problem than me you decide to go dual battery, you can fit the extra battery in the boot using a battery box, and if you really care you could vent it to the outside. In this case you could also get a dual battery kit for about $160 (which includes 6m of cable worth around $90), which has a microprocessor that does smart things. Maybe you can access constant power for your accessories some way, maybe even direct from one of the batteries. But maybe you should prioritise your heating problems.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:40 am 
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I run a dual battery system. My sound system is powered by the battery in the boot, but due to the fact that the accesory wire is connected to the ignition system it still cuts out for a moment while cranking. Got to love being able to run my sound system and 240v inverter for 4 hours odd and still know the master battery will start the car.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:40 am 
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relaxed, but not stoned your honour,_diplomacy wrote:
If after talking to a number of people more knowledgable about your specific problem than me you decide to go dual battery, you can fit the extra battery in the boot using a battery box, and if you really care you could vent it to the outside. In this case you could also get a dual battery kit for about $160 (which includes 6m of cable worth around $90), which has a microprocessor that does smart things. Maybe you can access constant power for your accessories some way, maybe even direct from one of the batteries. But maybe you should prioritise your heating problems.


Too right on the priorities thanks. Couldn't agree more. Is just that I really do not have a clue with mechanical things, and feel safer mucking about with bits that will not destroy the car if I screw it up and just have to pull my work out again! I have a mate with a pit which may allow access to the hose I think is leaking, but yeah - Could be time to get the head pulled off and replaced with a straighter one...!Image


Mad ''as a fuel thief in the outback running a auto V8'' Matt wrote:
I run a dual battery system. My sound system is powered by the battery in the boot, but due to the fact that the accesory wire is connected to the ignition system it still cuts out for a moment while cranking. Got to love being able to run my sound system and 240v inverter for 4 hours odd and still know the master battery will start the car.


Ahah, the ACC wire is connected to ignition... Hmmmph! I could, in my head anyway, just run the second battery to the stereos 12v sources (via an appropriate fuse, of course!) and bypass the ignition thing altogether. I would obviously need some great diodes or something to stop the second battery trying to start the car, but this is do-able. A cheap option would even be to have a manual cut off switch so the second battery only gets charged when you tell it to (and therefore you can turn off it's connection to other battery / alternator when starting car...)

Hmmmph... I'd probably never remember to switch it over and end up running my stereo flat but at least will be able to start the car!

And, I am in a stationwagon, so finding a spot to put a vented battery in could be troublesome. How about two small 6v batteries in sequence - that way I could find room under the hood...?!
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:47 am 
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Couldn't you just change the power supply of your DVD etc to constant 12v supply instead of going through the accesories or will the drain of the starter motor interupt the DVD and cause it to drop out? If you still need to fit a second battery, what about the smaller jell type units that the doof-doof freaks fit to power their systems?
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:45 am 
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linz winz wrote:
Couldn't you just change the power supply of your DVD etc to constant 12v supply instead of going through the accesories or will the drain of the starter motor interupt the DVD and cause it to drop out? If you still need to fit a second battery, what about the smaller jell type units that the doof-doof freaks fit to power their systems?


The DOOF DOOF phreaks are onto something I guess... Only thing being the JAYCAR dude reminded me of something my Dad taught me --- You shouldn't really mix different types of battery on the same charging alternator. Although, if they're completely isolated I don't see why not. Besides which, my batteries pretty stuffed already!!!! Hehehehe ;)

The CONSTANT SUPPLY you talk of drops to such a level that the stereo shuts down (but maintains its memory of where it was up to, meaning you just have a 30 seconds wait while the DVD reloads or what-have-you). Any games machine doesn't remember where it was up to and just resets.

Whilst in JAYCAR I saw a similar thing to this on the counter... And thus, I asked the JAYCAR dude about it after my usual stuffing around with purchasing... He said it was sitting on the counter as he was just showing it to a guy who wanted a Dual Battery Isolator to keep his kids games going in the back of his 4x4 when starting the motor!

As we discussed, the Battery Isolator may not do the trick, so sitting on the self right next to it, was this little DOOF DOOF enhancement....

He was amazed, as this is the first customer to have ever asked - and I was the second... In the space of two minutes...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=161273555
I have found the product on the JAYCAR site, and it is the same...
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3672

 

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:09 pm 
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linz wrote:
Couldn't you just change the power supply of your DVD etc to constant 12v supply instead of going through the accesories or will the drain of the starter motor interupt the DVD and cause it to drop out? If you still need to fit a second battery, what about the smaller jell type u
nits that the doof-doof freaks fit to power their systems?


I should have mentioned about the isolator...obviously, you need one so that the second battery can be charged with the same alternator. If you need more advice on the 2 battery setup, find your nearest 4WD store and have a chat to them about it...they've been doing this sort of thing since Adam was a boy LOL. They would have a LOT more experience at doing the actual conversion than the "wet behind the ears" staff at some of the electronics stores that I've been to....cheers Linz.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:15 pm 
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Linz - The product, pictured is not an isolator. it is advertised as...



Heavy Duty 70 Amp Battery Power Selector

This battery power selector provides a simple, solid-state solution to the need for routing redundant DC power sources for vital electronic equipment while maintaining isolation of the DC power sources.
Two independent batteries are wired to separated terminals on the selector and internal diodes maintain total isolation between the batteries. A single output is wired to the critical load, which is then powered by the higher voltage source.
Isolation prevents the higher charged battery from 'dumping' into the lower charged or failed battery. Current is drawn automatically and continuously from the battery with the higher charge, so that there is no interruption of power if one of the batteries fails or becomes totally discharged.
* Rated for 6-48VDC negative ground systems up to 70 Amps
* Heavy duty marine grade construction
* Rust-Proof anodised aluminium case
* Heavy duty brass bolts and nuts
* Innovative boot design for terminal protection
* Complete with stainless steel mounting hardware


I agree about the 4x4 places, but in actual fact - Although they put two batteries in a lot, there seems to be a little confusion over best way to do what I'm thinking. And - anyways, I think I've found it with this little box (that almost matches my PICK n MIX colour scheme!)

Cheers all! Will post again here one day with pictures of an install!!!
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:45 pm 
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all you need to do is use a heavy duty diode ie BY229 or PX6007 connected between the start and the acc wires in the steering column. No need for additional batteries and the rest of the stuff mentioned above
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:29 pm 
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sexy 66 coupe wrote:
all you need to do is use a heavy duty diode ie BY229 or PX6007 connected between the start and the acc wires in the steering column. No need for additional batteries and the rest of the stuff mentioned above


Wowo. Now that's good thinking. I am wondering if the current that the starter uses will almost stop the supply to the acc circuit anyway... Hmmm... May just give it a go - as long as it's not going to blow up stuff too bad. I am going to put the loom and fuses from my Fairmont into this Futura, so I suppose I should piss around with no fear! Cheers.!!!

 

 

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File comment: This file is the tech spec's for the BY229 diode. It's worth less than $10 and is worth a crack nigel.
diode_by229.pdf [42.34 KiB]
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:53 pm 
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A great source of BIG diodes is an old alternator. They have 50+ amp monsters in them.
The spare wheel well in the wagon has room for all the goodies you need. 12v 7AH SLA alarm batteries are really cheap and useful. You can also set up 3 or 4 in parallel for more capacity and they will not vent lots of explosive hydrogen into the cabin like a big lead acid will. For some cheap high current cable just get a few metres of 6mm2 power cable from electrical wholesaler for about $5m.

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:32 pm 
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Rick's Naughty EF Fairmont Wagon wrote:
A great source of BIG diodes is an old alternator. They have 50+ amp monsters in them.
The spare wheel well in the wagon has room for all the goodies you need. 12v 7AH SLA alarm batteries are really cheap and useful. You can also set up 3 or 4 in parallel for more capacity and they will not vent lots of explosive hydrogen into the cabin like a big lead acid will. For some cheap high current cable just get a few metres of 6mm2 power cable from electrical wholesaler for about $5m.


Yeahp - That sounds like just the ticket alright. Now have two spare alternators and may be able to strip some pretty solid cable and connectors out these cars too...!

Thanks again Rick old bean! Bloody great simple idea all of that.

I have some reasonably good cable going to boot area for a 12v feed to my reversing camera, so could easily just re-wire camera and use that cable to take power from spare wheel bay back up to head units...

 

 

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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Don't ruin an ef alternator though! They are in demand. I was referring to an old bosch or such from an old wreck. I got inspired and did some cleaning out parts in the garage. I dunno what the heck I have done with my Ef manual. I need the wiring diagrams for the next stage of conversion to Fairmont. I am not sure how much wiring loom to swap or will I need everything?

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:11 am 
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I was looking through a few ideas for this and Macca and Krytos seem to offer slightly differing views.

The HIGH SERIES BEM (BCM, woteva) uses different wiring... Which ain't hard to solve with a few wire swaps, but by the time you include the variable dimmer, the trip computer, the climate control, the extra fuses in fuse box and the power aerial, you may as well just swap looms. And the easiest way I can think to swap looms is to swap the entire dash! So, that's what I am going to do I think.

Only thing - I destroyed my Fairmonts right side instrument cluster connector to get the pins out of it for the extra line needed for the trip computer install in Futura so will need to chop it off entirely and sit there with a soldering iron and heat shrink for ages. Never mind, all good - At least all the colours should be the same!

Still not 100% committed to this course of action, but does seem like the simplest and possibly more reliable option. I know the HIGH SERIES BEM worked fine with the aerial, dimmers, air control etc etc etc when it was connected to this loom, so why d**k with it if it's working?!!!
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