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 Post subject: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:22 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Hi guys looking at getting the BA (02 model) converted to gas. Spoken to a few different gas fitters and seen some of their work and the feedback from their customers. It seems if going that either OMVL or vialle is the way to go if you don’t want to go injected (would love to but can’t afford it at the moment!).

Any BA owners with a converter system would love to hear some feedback and recommendations

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:58 pm 
Smokin em up
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Simple answer. If you can't afford an injected system, do yourself a favour and don't convert.

Putting a mixer-based system on a BA is a big mistake. You will be sacrificing driveability in a big way (you WILL lose power with petrol and you WILL lose even more power on gas) due to the restriction in the intake system caused by the 40mm venturi - you're effectively putting decades old technology in a modern car. A good BA is an ideal candidate for an injected gas system.

Regards,
Dave

 

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:07 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I'm surprised you can find a fitter stupid enough to even offer the old tech anymore!
When i spoke to a few about fitting gas, they all refused to even talk about putting a mixer on.

 

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:21 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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PoweredByCNG wrote:
Simple answer. If you can't afford an injected system, do yourself a favour and don't convert.

Putting a mixer-based system on a BA is a big mistake. You will be sacrificing driveability in a big way (you WILL lose power with petrol and you WILL lose even more power on gas) due to the restriction in the intake system caused by the 40mm venturi - you're effectively putting decades old technology in a modern car. A good BA is an ideal candidate for an injected gas system.

Regards,
Dave



i see what you mean- injected is the way to go- but i know a few cabbies that run on a mixer based system and they have never had any dramas- one i know is on 650,000 on a OMVL RE90- same engine. Ive had a BA in the past on an injection system and had ALOT OF PROBLEMS- it wasnt backfiring, but it was running rough and cutting out- and it was never sorted out. thats another reason why im looking at the mixer system. what system would you recommend?

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:22 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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ashcook wrote:
I have a dual fuel BA with injected LPG. And like the others have said, don't kid yourself going with the cheaper option. If your trying to save some dollars, wait until a dual fuel or dedicated Falcon comes along. There are stacks out there so plenty to choose from.


what system you running mate??
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:38 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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ashcook wrote:
Mine is an Elka system I think. It's been good to me and am about to swap it over to my new Territory. I have had a couple of minor issues but generally you can barely tell the difference between fuel and LPG. $30 for 400k's is great for me and the driving I do.


what sort of minors issues?? All sorted now?? See gas fitter i spoke to does alot of taxi's and said that that if you maintain spark plugs and ignition coils you shouldnt really have any dramas- not sure which way to go thats all.
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:06 pm 
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I would HIGHLY recommend the EuroGas, Tartarini or Sprint Gas (OMVL) injection systems (in that order) as they are all proven systems on BA-BF Falcons. Find yourself a reliable installer by doing your homework and you should be fine. Don't expect the world before the 1,500km service though, as your equipment needs time to wear in before a reliable tune can be obtained.

Regards,
Dave

 

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:24 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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thanks for the info guys- ill go see a few shops this week and will see what they say.
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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nothing wrong with mixer systems...yes they "decades" old but they are tried and tested, extremely reliable and cheap...

as far as im concerned injection systems are not worth the $4500-5000 installers are asking....but then again im a tightass....if I had the cash to waste id consider it but only after massive research to find the best brand....

as far as mixer systems go, only consider OMVL or IMPCO, every mechanic deals with these two systems on a daily basis..they are simple, cheap and easy to fix which cant be said of any of the injection systems....

choice is this :
1). if your cashed up, after every last bit of performance and dont mind being at the mercy of your lpg installer for maintenance further on down the line then go injection..
2). if you are limited in cash and want a simple system that is easy to tune and maintain by any cheap mechanic then OMVL or IMPCO mixer system is the way to go..

my 2c

 

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:04 pm 
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OMVL, Airod and Landi Renzo are the European-style venturi-type systems I'd go for IF taking that route.

If you're after an American-style air-valve carburettor type system, GENUINE IMPCO is the only way to go, and insist on an LEAN-BIAS computer.

But really, if you're after a system that offers the best compromise between affordability and reliability, a gas injection system is the way to go. With the reduced rebate, you'll be able to take your pick from almost any standard injection install for $4000. Shop around, do your homework, and bargain hard!

Regards,
Dave

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:40 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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gogetta wrote:
nothing wrong with mixer systems...yes they "decades" old but they are tried and tested, extremely reliable and cheap...

as far as im concerned injection systems are not worth the $4500-5000 installers are asking....but then again im a tightass....if I had the cash to waste id consider it but only after massive research to find the best brand....

as far as mixer systems go, only consider OMVL or IMPCO, every mechanic deals with these two systems on a daily basis..they are simple, cheap and easy to fix which cant be said of any of the injection systems....

choice is this :
1). if your cashed up, after every last bit of performance and dont mind being at the mercy of your lpg installer for maintenance further on down the line then go injection..
2). if you are limited in cash and want a simple system that is easy to tune and maintain by any cheap mechanic then OMVL or IMPCO mixer system is the way to go..

my 2c


mate i drive like a granny- the car is never thrashed and well maintained!! 99% revs is under 2200rpm. and yes i am a little bit of a a***- thats why im considering the gas :D

ashcook wrote:
I bought my car for $8500 with the $4500 injection system installed 2 months before. I would never pay the that much money for it either. Thats why I'm taking it off the old car and putting it onto the new one. I know I would not get the $4500 value on top of the cars value when I sell it, just like the guy I bought it off didn't. Search around, they are out there. $4500 is a lot of fuel money.


thats nearly $3000 out of pocket- s**t load of money for me man.

PoweredByCNG wrote:
OMVL, Airod and Landi Renzo are the European-style venturi-type systems I'd go for IF taking that route.

If you're after an American-style air-valve carburettor type system, GENUINE IMPCO is the only way to go, and insist on an LEAN-BIAS computer.

But really, if you're after a system that offers the best compromise between affordability and reliability, a gas injection system is the way to go. With the reduced rebate, you'll be able to take your pick from almost any standard injection install for $4000. Shop around, do your homework, and bargain hard!

Regards,
Dave


Im looking more into the OMVL system as ive been/driven a couple of BA's with the OMVL and they have run really well. Should i be looking at any specific computers to be fitted with the OMVL system??

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:47 pm 
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The OMVL kit only has the AEB 295 processor and R90/E regulator.

The performance, reliability, economy and underbonnet neatness of your install depends HEAVILY on your installer.

Once again, I would like to advise against installing such an antiquated system on such a new vehicle. Odds are that you WILL eventually suffer from backfires and that will mean replacement airboxes - and these cost MONEY. A decent mixer-based system costs upwards of $3000 these days so the difference between mixer and injection in terms of price really isn't as big as you think it is. You could be lucky and score an injected system for under $4000 (I have had people tell me that they have paid as little as $3700 for a Tartarini SVI setup with 68L tank on a BA!). Again, I must reiterate that your choice of installer is probably the most important factor. DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Regards,
Dave

 

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2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:55 pm 
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PoweredByCNG wrote:
If you're after an American-style air-valve carburettor type system, GENUINE IMPCO is the only way to go, and insist on an LEAN-BIAS computer.


Regards,
Dave


would u mind explaining the lean bias computer to me...

ive got(had) impco commander computer (rich - bias??) and it was a piece of crap...ive actually got it disconnected because it was causing massive flat spots....ive tuned the system without it and its running very nice only prob is its a little too lean at idle on hot days

 

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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:55 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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i will mate, ill have a chat to a few installers and go from there- i know some will only fit injected to the BA's. Is it mainly the backfiring that is a concern with going with a venturi system?
thanks mate
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 Post subject: Re: ba on converter style system
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:17 am 
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GT-P wrote:
i will mate, ill have a chat to a few installers and go from there- i know some will only fit injected to the BA's. Is it mainly the backfiring that is a concern with going with a venturi system?
thanks mate


Mainly the backfiring, but also the lack of proper integration with the electronics. If the backfire is big enough, your engine may suffer conrod damage (the factory E-gas engines are fitted with stronger conrods to attempt to combat this). Also, cars made in 2004 or later require emissions-approved systems. It is difficult, if not impossible for single-point systems to comply with the latest emissions standards. The ECUs used for injected LPG systems actually convert the petrol injection signal / pulse-width into the pulse-width required for LPG injection and therefore mean that the engine will basically be running as if it were running on petrol.

Regards,
Dave

 

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2005 VZ Commodore SV6 with OMVL Dream XXI SVI LPG
2004 BA Falcon XT with Orbital Liquid LPG Injection
2004 BA Falcon XR6 with icom JTG Liquid LPG Injection

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