Hi
The cell is that a stainless tube then flat plates inside.?
Series is the preferred option. Voltage causes excess heat, amps produce the HHO.
The only issue with series is you will need to increase the catalyst concentration 5 fold to get the amps happening.
Fuses blowing.? What electrolyte do you use. Some can be very unpredictable in what amps they will pull today compared to tomorrow. Its usually based a lot on water temp. As the temp increases so do the amps and HHO in fact and its not always linear.
Use what Garth and I do KOH but make sure you are super careful with it.
Invest in a PWM (pulse width modulator) this will keep the amps where you want them. You only need to set it up once and then forget. I like to have an amp meter wired in the car that way I know what my Cell is doing. Its a good safety device in case your cells runs out of water etc. If your cell is half empty and the top plates get super hot or spark then its good by cell “boom.”

Garth and co
I have come to the conclusion about HHO I believe there is a balance between improvement to your fuel economy and not Its directly proportional by how much HHO you feed back into the system.. Well that’s what I have found on the Ford. Its bit like a balance between HHO, LPG and Air. The trick is to get that balance. The other factors may also be the type of fuel, how much HHO produced and where its injected and type of electronics on the engine.
Has anyone seen the same as me.? I am currently testing this out as I do a large number of Ks consistently which makes a good testing ground. So far theory is proving correct. I have gone from 22 Amps to 17 and the economy has improved. Producing around the 1 litre per min mark. I can control the amps because of my PWM setup.

Cheers
madmurf

Madmurf,

My cell is sewer PVC and yes it is flat plates inside. I am using NAOH as my electrolyte. I still haven't scourced any KOH. where did you get yours from?

PWM.. where can I get one of these too? I think that is a good idea to have it where amps are a constant set value. Havcing a fuse in line I now know that I am pulling more than 15 amps and less than 30... At least it is a safety switch..

Hi Manstra

I use the PVC/ ss plate setup at the moment.
I have gone for the 100mm pipe I like plenty of liquid around my plates. I have 8 plates
+nnnnnn- they are laser cut and dead flate so I can get them close together, (Plastic washer width)
I have used SS 16g x 10cm as my leads these are also insullated to save on current leakage (another topic) I want all the action to happen at the plates not my leads. Dont use copper inside the cell.
NAOH is fine. Your correct about getting hold of KOH
because its also used in drug production. I got mine from a soap shop as its also use in soap making. Stick to standard caustic for now not much difference in production and as long as your using 316 and the water is distilled it will stay clean. DONT USE BAKING SODA (another topic for discussion)
I have a new 30 amp PWM spare at the moment i will list it on ebay under HHO PWM for around $80 plus delivery if your interested, it has saved me a lot of melted wires and cells. I just take an educated guess now on the KOH and if its too much big deal the PWM will handle the over dose.
With your wireing make sure your get the largest wire your can to handle the power to the cell and the joints are spot on solder if at all possible.
You dont want high resistance jonts thats a waste of amps.
Sorry about the long message just tell me pull my head if all too long winded I just like the idea that some of us I doing the right thing for the world and our pockets.
Let me know if your after the PWM I curretly have a couple of items listed on ebay (under madmurf)at the moment. With your setup go +nn-nn.
Keep sharing guys so we can all learn.
Install a Flash Back Arrester and a Relay if you havent already.
Off to the shed now to build another cell.

HHO-OZ

Cheers
Madmurf

Posted: Yesterday at 8:45 pm Post subject:

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Thanks Madmurf for that.

I have 100mm pvc tube, 5 plates -nnn+ at the moment with NAOH. I have no joints at all inside the tube. I made my + and - plates with tabs on them and they bolt onto the endcap of the tube and the wires attached to these bolts on the outside of the tube. There is NO copper inside as I have heard that that is BAD.

I am very interested in the PWM but funds are a bit short at the moment. Any chance you could hold 1 aside for me for a month or so? I don't have a flash back arrestewr installed, just a bubler. I heard they do the same thing.. stop the flame from getting to the generator.

Don't apologise for the long messages.the more information the better a** far as I am concerned.

I was wondering why you recommended +nn-nn for my setup? I can't see what the last 2 n's would do.. or should it be +nn-nn+?

Thanks again to you and Garth for getting me hooked into this.

Hey Madmurf,

I agree with Manstra - definitely no need to apologise for longish posts, the more details the better.
Nobody is forced to read them if they don't want to.

Keep up the good work.

Garth

Gooday,
The O2 sensor you can fool easy by wrapping around some aluminium foil around the lamda-probe it on the outside (three layers loosly wraped wille do) . You can find this probe somewhere on your extension.
The probe measures the difference between the exaust temperature and the the temperature outside, by insulating it al little, you trick the system.

Hi Manstra
Correct should have been + on the end what your config is a basic Smack Booster style.
The flash arrester is just more insurance. If your flow rate is high and your bubler is a bit low on water it can actually follow the gas path back to the cell. I haven't seen it and wouldn't like to but it just extra insurance.
I get PWMs in quite often just drop me a line if you need one.
Robert007 I have done that trick with foil and it works. If its an AU Egas.
I ended up with an electronic attachment gave me more control

I have done a run at 14 amps today and achieved another litre on savings so just got to get the balance. Down another 2 amps and will post results next week.
Working on the petrol patrol this weekend. I have a new cell in test. Made up of about a meter of thin 316 stainless coiled up with gutter guard in between. I was getting very good production at 10 amps. All inside a pvc tube, I think its 80mm.
Catch you later
Madmurf

Hi well the results are in for the Ford on LPG.
14 to 15 amps with my sort of driving is the go, consistantly getting under 11.5 litres per 100ks.
Im also getting around 150Ks per tank out of the Daewoo Lanos (mixed driving) MAP unit goes on next.
Keep on HHO
Madmurf

Hi Guys

I have just joined the FordMods and I am really looking forward to reading all the info I can get on the HHO boosters, As I have chased up a lot of info on the net and studied a lot of kits that have been available for sale.
And from that info I wuild build my own unit for my Ford AU the only problem I am having atm is finding an O2 sensor mod in Australia, I can get 1 from the USA for $59.99 + $15 postage (USD) $81 (AUD)

Is there anyone in AUS that sells them ??

http://www.magnumtuning.com/index.phtml ... _id=004009

Cheers Alan

P.S. Please excuse my ignorance if there is a post on this already, I havnt got around to reading the whole 20 pages in the forum as yet

Popular Mechanics has recently published another article on HHO, again, the usual naysayers and armchair critics are saying "you can't violate the laws of thermodynamics, etc... etc..." and pooh-pooh'ing the concept.

Article and comments: {DESCRIPTION}

It's quite evident that it works from the backyard experimenters' results here and across the web at large show the concept can work, but many are under the assumption that this technology is supposed to REPLACE the dependency on petrol instead of supplement it to increase efficiency.

To think that a technical publication such as PM can carry out such a half-a*** attempt at "scientific" method (they didn't take into account the computer enriching the mixture and compensating by fooling the sensor) is just testament that "those who say it won't work should stay out of the way of those trying". "Heavy testing" BS.

Keep up the good work, fellas.

Hi Alan
Welcome to Fordmods
Another cheaper alternative is wrapping the O2 sensor up in Aluminum Foil or buying a O2 extender for around $12. Let me know if you need one of those. The electronic method is the best but all around that price.
Cheers

Madmurf

Well said El Sledgo.
The Myth Busters made a HHO unit they built from plans off the Web.
Looked like a great cell but when they fired it up it made virtually no HHO, the drongos forgot to add a Catalyst to the distilled water so virtually no Electrolysis.
With PM I would have expected more scientific effort as well.
I just think that science wont step outside what it knows and we are expected to believe the guys in white coats

Thanks madmurf

I think I read something about that earlier (Aluminium Foil) does it really work ?? cause damn that would be a break thru

Because I was always lead to believe that it's an electronic pulse sent to the ECU (.7 of a volt) telling it that it's running a mixture of 14.7 to 1 and when I run a HHO booster and there is more O2 in the exhaust then it changes to (.4 of a volt) and the ECU thinks it's running to lean and enriches the fuel mixture - will the foil stop that signal from changing ??

cheers Alan (cause on the other hand I could have it a*** about)