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Car Struggles to Start (LPG?) 

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:40 am 
Getting Side Ways
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what u can get is a little elec box thing which is a timer. it switches petrol on for a short time (0.5 - 2.0 sec) while its on gas at the same time...very common and very cheap....gives the gas a little help

problem for u is that u need an operation fuel system...

get your fuel system fixed....trust me u will be glad to have the backup when u run out of lpg or when the gas breaks down...

youll probably need a new fuel pump / filter / and injectors (get some good second hand stuff for cheap) plus youll need to figure out whats happend to your lpg/pet switch...

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:44 am 
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what would happen if you got that aforementioned box thing and modified it so it runs both petrol and gas at the same time all the time? :P flood it to f**k i guess lol

 

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 Post subject: New years Eve
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:33 am 
Oompa Loompa
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gogetta wrote:
get your fuel system fixed....trust me u will be glad to have the backup when u run out of lpg or when the gas breaks down...


Yeh, I almost found that out the hard way.

On new years eve me and 4 mates were on a trip in my falcon, and I noticed it was about time to fill up the tank, (if I didn't we weren't going to make it to our destination) so we pulled up to the gas pump, attached the nozzle.... and it wouldn't pump.
I asked the people who run the place, and they said because it was a hot day (41), the temperature difference in the tank at the station and the tank in my car meant i couldn't fill up.
I tried another station, waited about 40 mins, and it still didn't work, so we went to a third station and was lucky enough for it to work.

It really showed me that having the petrol switch would have been REALLY handy about then.

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:18 pm 
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basstrom_dave wrote:

BTW, when its turning over should I be touching the accelerator?

Cheers



No, dont touch it it causes the Air box to blow...Somthing to do with it not being injected or somthing...I dunno look it up :p
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:58 pm 
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OK

DEFINITIVE ANSWER

I had a distributor problem with the Falcon when I was down in Frankston, I took it to a freinds mechanic and he was shocked when he saw the car.

Apparently the LPG system that is installed on it is the type that REQUIRES the car to be run on petrol for a few minutes before switched to gas. And it is NOT to be started on gas... EVER.

I was not aware of this as the car didn't come with a gas/petrol switch and the bloke who sold it to me said it was how it should be.

So apparently I now run the risk of blowing the airbox again, and burning the valves.

Does anyone know what sort of price I'm looking at for a switch?

After whats happened I'm going to pop into a gas specialist near my house after I get my Falcon back, and ask how much it will cost.

 

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 Post subject: Re: New years Eve
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:28 pm 
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renegade334 wrote:
Yeh, I almost found that out the hard way.

On new years eve me and 4 mates were on a trip in my falcon, and I noticed it was about time to fill up the tank, (if I didn't we weren't going to make it to our destination) so we pulled up to the gas pump, attached the nozzle.... and it wouldn't pump.
I asked the people who run the place, and they said because it was a hot day (41), the temperature difference in the tank at the station and the tank in my car meant i couldn't fill up.
I tried another station, waited about 40 mins, and it still didn't work, so we went to a third station and was lucky enough for it to work.

It really showed me that having the petrol switch would have been REALLY handy about then.
Be careful when you try to fill an empty LPG tank - restrict your inital flow for the first few litres - full bore and you'll freeze the fill valve - this means you won't put any more into the tank till it thaws - this can take 15-20 mins or so.
AFAIK aftermarket LPG systems that start on petrol will have a petrol start unit somewhere in the wiring - they will have an adjuster that varies the time that petrol is admitted. The petrol start is supposed to reduce backfire risk, but there are LPG only start systems also, they can have an LPG primer for cold starts.

Some extra reading:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38439
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31521

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:58 am 
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You can get your car starting on lpg no worries at all if you know what your doing.
I have an EF with a b2 converter & impco 225 mixer straight gas.
I had trouble with cold starting originally until I fitted a primer to the converter wired in parallel to the starter motor solenoid.
I connected the hose from the primer directly to the inlet manifold where the map sensor usually connects. It starts in 2-3 crank when freezing cold, and it starts instantly when hot. It starts faster than a car on petrol now.
I had to play around with the primer hose, I ended up with jamming a motorbike main jet inside the hose with a 1.6mm orifice in it.
If the orifice was any smaller it wouldn't start well, any larger and it would sometimes flood the engine.

Even the Egas falcons have a primer on the converter, they start pretty quickly but my car starts faster than one of those.

Also try giving the idle adjustment/throttle stop screw 1/2 or 1 turn. this lets the mixer get a little more vacuum to get it opening to help it start.
I had trouble originally that my car would start and then when i let go of the key it would stall. this fixed that problem.

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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:34 am 
Oompa Loompa
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luke111 wrote:
You can get your car starting on lpg no worries at all if you know what your doing.


I'm pretty new to gas, but I've been looking into it, and I'm starting to understand.

Quote:
...until I fitted a primer...

Where can i get more information on this?


Cheers

 

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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:28 am 
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post up a picture of your gas converter and i'll show you what you need to buy. shouldn't cost any more than about $40 and takes about an hour to fit.
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:42 pm 
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After stuffing around for 7 hrs yesterday, trying to fix the hard start problem, I fitted a 2nd hand convertor and now the car starts in 2 secs when dead cold :)

We also check for any vacuum leaks etc and reset all the gas mixtures. Now to see if the economy will improve.

The major reason she was hard to start....running massivley rich

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:37 am 
Oompa Loompa
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luke111 wrote:
post up a picture of your gas converter and i'll show you what you need to buy. shouldn't cost any more than about $40 and takes about an hour to fit.


Image

This is all I've got on me, I can take a closer pic tomorrow if more detail needed.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:05 pm 
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See on the picture above that i posted of my engine bay there is a solenoid positioned between where the 2 heater hoses enter the converter?
That is just a regular petrol lock off valve. You can get these from any LPG supplies store. Don't tell them what its for just ask for a petrol lock off valve.

Unscrew the plug between the 2 coolant hose on the right side of the converter and screw in this lock off valve. You may need to get a male-male adaptor thats the same thread. At the other end I fitted a 90deg barb to suit a 1/4" hose. You could fit a straight barb in the end to suit a 1/4" hose if you want.
Then find a spare vacuum port around the throttle body and attach a long hose between the 2 ports. If you follow where my hose runs, i attached mine where the map sensor usually plugs in and I found another connection point for the map sensor instead. This is the most central/middle even injection point for the raw gas so it is distributed evenly. I tried injecting before the throttle body and it took longer to get the car to start. After the throttle blade into the plenum chamber is the best spot.
I also inserted a motorcycle main jet inside the hose just before it clamps to the fitting in the manifold and drilled it out to 1.6mm. (Check my previous post) You can leave this jet out to begin with though.
Then see the red wire I have attached to the "primer" solenoid between the heater hoses? If you follow it, you'll see it runs to the starter motor solenoid so that while I'm cranking the starter motor, it energizes the primer. As soon as I let go off the key, it stops as well.
Image
http://www.medauto.com.au/main_files/solenoidvalves.htm
Go to this website and have a look at Type 011 - Petrol / LPGas lock off valve. This is what you need.

Could you please take a picture of the throttle body & mixer for me down in behind the left headlight?
Im thinking about installing the earlier ED manifold to my EF so I can get the mixer mounted closer to the throttle body I just wanna see what it looks like I've never seen one in the flesh before. At the moment I have my mixer hanging over the exhaust manifold sucking in hot air off the header.
I'm getting 400km to the tank now but I think with some cold air I might be able to improve on those figures.

Any other questions I'll be glad to help but hopefully I should have covered everything.
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