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FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm 

 

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 Post subject: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:32 am 
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Well i bit the bullet and put gas on the daily driver. Not only because its cheap but if i can get that gov grant then all the better :D

I decide to go a slightly different route with mounting the converter and the mixer.

I never liked how on most installs the mixer was mounted on the drivers side of the car, effectively extending the intake by 4 ft and making the engine work hard to draw air. Not only is there restriction through the mixer choking the engine but all that extra piping as well, and also the heat soak through the pipe increasing intake air temps and decreasing air density. This = power loss.

I have seen on very few installs the mixer mounted in the 90deg elbow between the air box and the pipe that goes over the bbm. This is a good idea. However the converter is still always mounted on the drivers side due to space restrictions so the vapour line is very long. This gives the car poor response due to the time it takes the gas vapour to get to the mixer. this = poor get up and go :lol:

So what was i too do? i wanted gas but not a great loss in power, i also wanted good response as the car is a manual and i didn't want it to feel "doughy" after shifts and so on. This meant i needed the mixer in the elbow, and a really short vapour line.

The solution.

Move the washer bottle!!!!

Ill stop rambling now and post up some pics.

the new washer bottle, a $10 radiator over flow bottle from supercheap. with a hole in the front for the washer motor. Cut this carefully as the plastic is very soft. Or use a hole saw :)
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A hole drilled in the bottom for the low water level sender.
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A new grommet made up out of the rubber for a oil breather filter. Better than the foam s**t.
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The water sender and washer motor mounted.
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Where the washer bottle is now. Note: yes it is facing backward i just through it in there to take the pic :) it is installed now and pics will be updated soon.
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I fitted a nice bell-mouth to help this along.
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I modified a EF airbox rubber to fit the bell-mouth.
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The mixer.
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and another
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and another
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And now the piste resistounce, the converter.
Image

Yep. that's the converter mounted right up in there out of the way. There a relatively low maintenance item and i can have it out in about 10 mins flat. Oh and the vapour line is all of about a foot long :)

Elements of this setup have changed over the last couple of days, and the pics will be updated soon. But i have been driving the car and let me tell you the performance has hardly dropped at all from standard. If anything it lacks a little in the top end compared to petrol, but this could be put down to the restriction through the mixer. But the torque i have down low has improved dramatically! i am getting better fuel economy form gas than i was on petrol! believe it or not. I am currently getting 10.8 lph on the trip computer compared to about 14 on petrol. I will update this over the next few days.

So thanks for reading all this (if you could be bothered) and feel free to ask, praise or criticize! :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 am 
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f@ck man thats awesome! are there any legalities involved as to where the convertor/mixer is mounted?

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:48 am 
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Oh and here is the wiring diagram i made up for the install of the electronics. I did it in paint so its not the greatest masterpiece in the world but its easy to read and may help anyone else out there doing there install. Oh btw its to suit an EL, but should suit any distributor e-series.

Take note of the pin outs on the relays particually the ones for the fuel pump and injectors. they need to be setup like this because you CANT have the ecu switching the injector relays on and off as the relays wont keep up. So use the fuel/gas switch to turn them on, and the wire from the ecu to the +12v power in side (30) and the injectors to 87.

The fuel pump ecu wire is wired in to the relay so it controls the fuel pump and fuel cut and gas bottle solenoids. This is setup so the gas/petrol switch controls which gets the power. Either the gas solenoid or petrol fuel pump. This setup also makes it legal so if the engine stalls and the car is on gas it cuts off power to the gas solenoids. Your car must be setup to do this!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:05 am 
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alfy wrote:
f@ck man thats awesome! are there any legalities involved as to where the convertor/mixer is mounted?



Thanks Alfey! yes there are. But are very minimal. i will type out what they are.

This is from the text book; The mechanics of lp gas for internal combustion engines, from the Sydney institute of technology.

This is the book used to train all lp gas fitters.

Converter mounting is as follows.

The converter should be mounted:

*vertically, to provide for natural drainage.

* longitudinally, to minimise the effects of inertia on the converter secondary diaphragm when the vehicle is accelerating or barking

*as close to the mixer as practical, to reduce the length of the vapour hose between the converter and the mixer, thus improving converter response.

*regardless of the service line used, the service line between the fuel lock off and the converter should be as short as possible.

* the original mounting points should be utilised and mounted solidly to the body of the vehicle so as not to impede any moving parts and be as far away from any structural point that could be damaged in an accident in as practical a manner as possible.

* When using a flexible service line, the filter lock off must be mounted in a protected position on the vehicle within the engine bay only.

* When using a solid service line, the fuel lock off must be mounted to the chassis if the fuel cylinder is also fitted to the chassis, the service line from the lock off to the converter would then need to be a flexible hose.

That's about it :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:56 am 
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Now, that is a Nice Job!!

Giving me some ideas now Flash!

BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:28 am 
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Thanks Benj.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Update: in peak hour traffic on a 30+deg day with the a/c blaring. I returned 15 L/100km :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:28 pm 
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Is that a full impco lpg kit???

How has it performed???

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Good to see a few variations on the std LPG setup.
Just a few things you may or may not have known:

Your mixer setup is nearly the same as the std EL impco setup, the ducting over the BBM is an alloy fixture, which the 200L mixer bolts to.
Your O2 sensor needs a changeover relay to swap O2 input to the gas commander, or the EEC ECU when on petrol.
You'll find it easier to set up the fuel pump disable relay as per the injector relays piggy back style - they can sit next to each other in the cavity behind the ECU. ECU pin 22 is an earth, not 12v. The fuel pump or lockoffs won't work with it like this.
The power line from the gas commander to the lock offs needs to be on it's own - with it as shown, the power will still be maintained via the fuel select select switch, so gas won't be shut off if the engine stops, whilst gas is selected.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:00 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
Good to see a few variations on the std LPG setup.
Just a few things you may or may not have known:

Your mixer setup is nearly the same as the std EL impco setup, the ducting over the BBM is an alloy fixture, which the 200L mixer bolts to.
Your O2 sensor needs a changeover relay to swap O2 input to the gas commander, or the EEC ECU when on petrol.
You'll find it easier to set up the fuel pump disable relay as per the injector relays piggy back style - they can sit next to each other in the cavity behind the ECU. ECU pin 22 is an earth, not 12v. The fuel pump or lockoffs won't work with it like this.
The power line from the gas commander to the lock offs needs to be on it's own - with it as shown, the power will still be maintained via the fuel select select switch, so gas won't be shut off if the engine stops, whilst gas is selected.


Yes pin 22 is earth but it is how the ecu controls the power to the fuel pump. With the ignition on the power goes to the fuel pump via its relay, but the ecu controls the earth circuit. So it uses that to switch the pump on and off. I have setup the gas lock off exactly the same way. So just the same as if the engine stalls on petrol the ecu cuts the earth circuit and stops the fuel pump from running, on the gas position on the toggle switch it cuts the earth circuit on the gas lock offs :)

You may need to study the diagram again, not a shot just a suggestion. Unless i put up the wrong diagram? f**k! ill have to check :oops: I made a few before i got the setup i wanted/needed.

As in my first post ive seen the mixer there on a few setups but not lots. I didn't realise its there standard. But ive never seen a converter where i have it :)

The oxygen sensor wire to the fuel commander is spliced into the oxygen sensor signal wire to the ecu. So both the fuel commander and the ecu gets the signal, but the fuel commander only gets it when it is turned on by the gas switch. This saves the ecu belting up fault codes.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:08 pm 
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I think you maybe getting confused with the 86 signal wire on the fuel pump relay. It maybe making you think there is power to the fuel pump and lock offs.

Oh

This isn't the standard relay by the way! this is an additional relay i have added, sorry i should have mentioned that. And yes there all next to the ecu in the kick panel :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:21 pm 
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MICKYYYY wrote:
Is that a full impco lpg kit???

How has it performed???


The mixer, converter and fuel commander are all impco. The mounting spots and modifacations and everything else is my own.

How has it performed?

f**k brilliantly!!!

I love it :)

Ill love it even more if i get my $2000! but as of Feb the 1st they have changed some of the regulations with getting the grant so i may be out of luck :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:23 pm 
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So is someone certifying your install ?? Or are you a licenced installer ??
I'm not taking shots either, but I'd like to advise you if the electrics aren't correct IMO.
FLASH wrote:
I think you maybe getting confused with the 86 signal wire on the fuel pump relay. It maybe making you think there is power to the fuel pump and lock offs.
Nah, you've got +12v up near pin 22. The lock offs are earthed through the car chassis, so you need to control power to them, and not earth.
Be careful with O2 sensor connections to multiitems, even when they're not powered, they can rob voltage through components, and since it's millivolts it can affect rich/lean results. I've always seen a changeover relay with the O2 sensor.

Benj has all my diagrams from my installations, and has redone them in electronic format - ask him to send you a copy - they should give you another angle to look at.

 

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Last edited by snap0964 on Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:31 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
So is someone certifying your install ?? Or are you a licenced installer ??
I'm not taking shots either, but I'd like to advise you if the electrics aren't correct.
And from an electricians point of view, you should find my comments accurate.

Benj has all my diagrams from my installations, and has done them in electronic format - ask him to send you a copy - they should give you another angle.



No worries mate. Im not a licened installer but my father is, so i borrowed the book and fitted it all by that.

The electrics all work. The car is running, and the gas stops if the engine does. And only flows if its cranking or running. Im just using earth as the trigger not +12v.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FLASH's EL XR6 gas install, a little different from the norm
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:44 pm 
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So long it works, that's the main thing.
The only other thing I'd suggest is use tank fills for LPG fuel figures - the trip comp was reasonably accurate when I used a std ECU, but it still used injector pulse and LPG level when on LPG.
The Tickford LPG ECU's shut down injectors internally, so big zero's on the trip comp on mine.

BTW: Is the washer bottle in the way of the cruise control module and cable?? It looked like in the pics that it's not fitted.

 

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