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LPG electronics playing up? 

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:02 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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bottlejack15 wrote:
The car is still running like s**t. Think the 2nd fuel pump is about to drop dead and the car also stalls sometimes when you deaccelerate. Quite dangerous if you are trying to turn a corner when it stalls!!!

I think i will replace the oxygen sensor, and am looking at getting the regulator rebuilt or changing to another brand of regulator. Got prices from ford for a new Vialle regulator $3300.00 ex GST or $1300.00 ex GST for an overhaul kit.


Mate before you spend a s**t of money on this, GET THE f**k ECU DECODED!!!!!

(Ahem) sorry for shouting, but I had similar probs with my AU - hard start, rough idle, stalling, running rich etc. Turns out the TMAP sensor (Temperature & Manifold Absolute Pressure) had been fried by a backfire while running on gas. With no intake temperature reading, the ECU defaulted to cold start settings and misbehaved as above.

If you've checked the basics (air filter, spark plugs, diconnected/broken wires) then I'd be taking it to either a Ford dealer or an EFI specialist with a scan tool that can read the ECU codes and tell you if any of the sensors are rooted. My scan cost an hour's labour, and most of the sensors are fairly easy to replace.

I know the sensors are different on the E-series to the AU, I think the E-series have separate temperature and vacuum sensors.

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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interesting... I have a spare Map sensor from the wreckers I must try it on my LPG car as it has backfired many times and popped the vaccuum hose off the Map sensor a few times.
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:40 pm 
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Do backfires punsish the map sensor pretty badly?

ive had too many lately to be proud of and ive hardened the intake so much that its things like the map sensor which are copping it.

 

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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:06 am 
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Bug wrote:
Do backfires punsish the map sensor pretty badly?

ive had too many lately to be proud of and ive hardened the intake so much that its things like the map sensor which are copping it.


They do in the AU which apparently has the TMAP sensor inside the manifold somewhere. I believe E series cars have a MAP sensor bolted to the firewall and connected to the manifold by a tube, and a separate IAT (intake air temp) sensor near the throttle body. Maybe these aren't as fragile.

I blew the TMAP sensor with one backfire 2&1/2 years ago. Haven't had a backfire since (touch wood).

 

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AU1.5 Wagon, Raptor ProStreet kit, Pacemaker 4499's with 3" collector, 3" metal cat, 3" pipe, Pex BSO660 & BSO439, BA brakes, Sprintgas mixer LPG system, Airod variable-venturi mixer... stealth FTW Sniper tuned!

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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:52 am 
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I get backfires on such a regular basis, (altho im hoping it will all be over soon) that I wouldnt be suprised if I havent blown anything up.

 

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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Just when I thought it was safe to go out....

Mine started playing up, more so on LPG (Tickford Factory LPG) started stalling at the lights, and cruising along and suddenly no power, and then it would be ok again for a few minutes.

I went down the wreckers and picked up a TMAP Sensor and a O2 Sensor for $20.

Fitted the O2 sensor and it drives like new again.

Priced a new TMAP for the AU $172 +GST ermmm no thanks, got one out of a low kay petrol AU and the guy thru it in with the O2 sensor. Not many of these have been replaced and wreckers font know how muc they are worth.

But at least I have a spare TMAP sensor now just in case

 

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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:55 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i had heaps of problems with my car not idling right, used to stall all the time.

Turned out to be the distributor was rooted, changed that out with a new one and its been fine ever since.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:09 pm 
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BUG ... Replace your leads and the backfires should get sorted.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:06 pm 
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richard williams wrote:
BUG ... Replace your leads and the backfires should get sorted.


LMAO... I bought a set of leads for my AU. They sat on the shelf till I had to take the head off. That was the only way I could get to the back of the coilpack :lol: Hope it's an easier job on an EF...

 

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AU1.5 Wagon, Raptor ProStreet kit, Pacemaker 4499's with 3" collector, 3" metal cat, 3" pipe, Pex BSO660 & BSO439, BA brakes, Sprintgas mixer LPG system, Airod variable-venturi mixer... stealth FTW Sniper tuned!

To be updated... soon!

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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:45 am 
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Leads are fairly new.. aint the leads fault its running too lean. Theres something sinister going on with the converter. Maybe I need to rip it apart and give it a good clean.

 

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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:56 am 
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EF leads are a bastard. in fact any leads on any e-series or Au for that matter sucks. After the old HQ 2mins to check/replace the whole set LOL .
What Idiot designed the thing? Leads, coils, dizzy cap, rotor button.... all basic maintenance that should be easy to access and repair/replace.
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:44 pm 
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:D Hi all. First of all I would like to thank all contributors to the problem of Ford stalling on LPG. Using various suggestions I now have a perfect full (LPG) powered EF and idles perfectly stable, even when coming to sudden stop. I would like to give you all some feedback in case this helps someone too.

Vehicle : FORD EF 95 series II Automatic
LPG: Vialle aftermarket fitted in 1998

Ran trouble free on LPG until about Dec 2006.
Symptoms:
1. idle rough on LPG (no problems on running on petrol)

2. When driving in "D" and suddenly slowing down or coming to a stop would STALL (7 times out of 10) or just osicallate from 200revs (or so) up to 900 and so on until it settled down to base idle speed. However if i left the auto in 3rd when driving it rarely ever stalled.(no problems when running on petrol)

3. Noticed also that I was losing radiator water ever so slowly (top up once a month).

Took it to my mechanic (who i have been using for many years) in March 2007. For a full tune up and gas fix.
He ordered in a Vialle kit and rebuilt as follows:
Rebuid kit $190
Solvent (don't ask me!!) $10
Assemble+Tune+Leak test $300
TOTAL $500
Plus tune up including SPARK PLUGS (pay attention this is important)
He showed me the old parts and how there was water all over the diaphragm. This is where i was losing water apparently. Idles perfectly in his garage.

Drove it home that night..... AND ... now stalled in "D" and even when in 3rd, when slowing down or coming to a stop....aaaaaahhhhgg!!!!!

So i had a quick look and found the PCV valve plastic connector had a crack in it.
Put in a new PCV valve myself and now back to same old problem of stalling in "D". but ok driving in 3rd. Strange that I never seemed to have full power on LPG like when it was new. Lack of mechanical experience put it down to an ageing FORD.

Now i put up with this problem for some months and ran the car on petrol most times. But i noticed a strange vibration that i could just feel. Almost like a tyre(s) that is out of balance but very subtle.
Then at the start of OCT 07 it started missing on petrol as well.
So one day i was driving on LPG and planted the foot and it went BANG!!. backfired and stalled.

Time to play home mechanic.

Using a handmade LED setup I checked the ECU for any error codes. These came up as 111 and 111 for soft and hard codes, so the system thought everything was ok.
Removed complete air inlet duct assembly/housing etc.
Inspected for cracks and found crack lines along the joint line (these things are made in 2 halves then plastic welded together by the looks of it) all around the air housing. Using a soldering iron I rewelded the plastic halves together then overlaid it with plastic glue to firmly keep the thing together (interim fix till i get around to the wreckers for a replacement).
Also thought I thought even though i had only done some 8000km since the mechanic changed my spark plugs I may as well do those just in case.
Low and behold they were only handtight. Using a tension wrench i worked out that they could be unscrewed with only 2Nm of force. Actual handbook setting is 20Nm. Replacement of spark plugs and correct tension fixed the running on petrol problem. but not the LPG problem.I pulled the ISC solenoid off and resealed the gaskets. Didn't know about cleaning the ISC with carby cleaner until later so that was never done. just redone the gaskets. Rang the FORD dealer who said a new ISC solenoid was $177 plus GST. Abandoned that idea as a last resort.
Time for some homework and research via fordmods.com. As a result of FORDMOD.COM suggestions, I looked for more vaccum leaks.

When the Vialle LPG was installed they moved the PCV valve hose inlet from the bottom of the intake manifold (underneath the throttle body) to the top of the air intake. Due to the difficulty of putting a plug over the old PCV return inlet they used a soft rubber cap and over time it just disintegrated. Replaced with a home made cap using hi temp hi pressure hosing and permanently sealed.(yes i know thats overkill but it will outlast the gas now)
They also moved the breather return hose from underneath the throttle body to the air inlet duct (they inserted their own plugs into the ducting to be able to do this). And yes you guessed it the original breather return outlet plug they used also was disintergrating. .Replaced/fixed and reassembled everything just mentioned. Time for a test drive. Idles perfectly smooth seemed i almost had my full power back and then ... coming to a stop sign... STALLED.... soooo close.
Final check on fordmod.com. There is a air return pipe that you guys call the "the balance pipe". A careful inspection and bingo.... a small crack on one bend of the pipe. Temp fix was to cover the hole with araldite and tape. Then the final test drive....... YES YES YES perfectly fixed- idle great, power great (like when it was new), and NO STALLING. So this balance pipe was the final answer to the problem. Which i will correctly replace soon. I figure where there is one fatigue spot there must be others.

I would like to ask a question of you all too. A friend has an ED FORD and it only stalls when turning left. apparently ok any other time.She has had it to mechanic and LPG blokes allto no avail. Somone in the forum mentioned power steering sensor problems. Could this be a symptom of a power steering sensor fault?

Once again THANK YOU to all contributors to this site. And i hope my experience helps someone too.
Ed
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:34 pm 
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according to the gregories and max elleries repair manuals, if the car stalls when the steering is turned then the power steering sensor is faulty.


as for the stalling on LPG, my car has the same problem. it runs beautiful on petrol but idles like a b**ch and stalls when u stop or slow down when its on lpg

where is the balance pipe thingymajig???
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:10 am 
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The balance pipe comes out from underneath the vialle converter, and is routed towards the front of the vehicle (drivers side) then over the radiator towards the air filter box. Its a plastic ribbed pipe oh about 50mm in diamater. The LPG installer would have fitted an entry pipe into the front of the air filter box and connnected the balance pipe to this.
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:15 am 
Tyre Shredder
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hmm alll my gas pipes and stuff are all on the passenger side, no gas stuff on drivers side watsoever oh and my gas setup is OMVL.

hmmm might just have to have a fiddle with things as usual lol
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