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Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:46 pm 
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BenJ wrote:
ToranaGuy wrote:
Your idea of the kit for economy & petrol for when you want fun is a good one, but i'd rather be having fun at 55.9 cpl than 1.30.9 cpl! lol.


I agree with you on that point.

However I find that I put in about $30 of petrol per fortnight for the fun factor. I use 98Ron fuel, and usually only switch to petrol when I want to upset some Commodore Ricer Boy at the traffic lights, so my petrol usage is usually at full throttle LOL.

I also start the wagon every morning on Petrol, and like to keep a bit in the tank for when I run the LPG dry.

$30 per fortnight is cheap fun by the way.

Cheers
BenJ

This is exactly what I do, LPG about 95% of the time then when I see some noob in a commo, chuck it on petrol and pwn him lol. Always fill 98ron too, I only have to put in about $5 petrol a week...really don't use it too often.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:04 pm 
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I have an Ebay kit, just not fitted it yet...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:11 pm 
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MadMatt wrote:
I have an Ebay kit, just not fitted it yet...

Details details!! Build log please :)

 

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2: My cars: Holden Monaro CV8-Z 2005. ls1 v8 :)
3: Nissan 180sx.sr20det, ~180rwkw.Lotsa mods,0-100 in 5.2secs.crashed into pole :(
4: EB2 Fairmont. 5spd,2.5" zorst,hi-flow cat,extractors,wade977b,j3, plus a 152dB 200psi train horn

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:08 pm 
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paul09

U need to get onto John or Jason for the gas research setup as it will be the cheapest way to get out of it or VSI and i would go see APS in Frankston.

If u want John numbers i can get it for u as he is helping my mate with his vl turbo lpg conversion.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:38 pm 
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also you can be limited buy the Flow potential of the valve in your lpg gas tank.......... i will be installing a BLOS system shortly as it is suppose to be on par with injection even if it's not i know it will be better than a mixer ring as it is 70mm not 35-40mm.....

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:58 pm 
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The mixer ring.. this surprised me too.. provides no restriction on the intake.
I had a boost gauge fitted, took notes on where it sat at full thottle throughout the rev range, had a parnell mixer system fitted.. And the intake was not restricted at all.

Your ignition timing is not optimised for lpg, nor is the petrol engine (dont chase improving your engine on gas unless its just f**k with the ignition timing)

Promise, its not the intake thats the restriction.
lpg, by mass, contains alot less energy (in kj's) then petrol, petrol is less then diesel.

Change your ignition timing, advance increments at a time (undo bolt next to sump plug, bit by bit til the dizzy becomes loose, so you dont pull out the screw!! counter clockwise advances her, 2-4mm at a time, make notes of your adjustments, this is important!)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Quote:
This is exactly what I do, LPG about 95% of the time then when I see some noob in a commo, chuck it on petrol and pwn him lol. Always fill 98ron too, I only have to put in about $5 petrol a week...really don't use it too often.

unless you have advanced your ignition timing, you will actually run slower on 98 then you will 91.
Not to mention your ecu which i know nothing about.

But a car designed to fire on 91, is optimised for exactly that :) 98 wont fire at the optimal timing

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:15 pm 
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-GAS-MAN- wrote:
Quote:
This is exactly what I do, LPG about 95% of the time then when I see some noob in a commo, chuck it on petrol and pwn him lol. Always fill 98ron too, I only have to put in about $5 petrol a week...really don't use it too often.

unless you have advanced your ignition timing, you will actually run slower on 98 then you will 91.
Not to mention your ecu which i know nothing about.

But a car designed to fire on 91, is optimised for exactly that :) 98 wont fire at the optimal timing

Running a j3 chip all tuned for 98 mate. Also I'm a chem engineering student so I know about the energy per mass stuff :) these reading from dyno are for petrol 98ron. It made 120rwkw on gas. Obviously for my mods to make 128rwkw on petrol there is something being restricted and tuner said it's the gas system restricting the petrol systems intAke

 

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1: Mum's car: ED XR6 wagon.zorst,stereo
2: My cars: Holden Monaro CV8-Z 2005. ls1 v8 :)
3: Nissan 180sx.sr20det, ~180rwkw.Lotsa mods,0-100 in 5.2secs.crashed into pole :(
4: EB2 Fairmont. 5spd,2.5" zorst,hi-flow cat,extractors,wade977b,j3, plus a 152dB 200psi train horn

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:43 pm 
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-GAS-MAN- wrote:
The mixer ring.. this surprised me too.. provides no restriction on the intake.
I had a boost gauge fitted, took notes on where it sat at full thottle throughout the rev range, had a parnell mixer system fitted.. And the intake was not restricted at all.





so why do engines with a mixer ring make less power on petrol?
And why have so many people removed the mixer ring and done back to back dyno runs and found power every time.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:59 am 
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Looking at the results from Sundays dyno day and the two stock mixer ring equipped dual fuel cars were almost 30rwkW down on their basically standard petrol only counterparts (only mods to the petrol cars were exhausts). BenJ's car made 13.2kW more than mine on petrol but he has a bigger cam and exhaust (I still made more on LPG).

Where are you taking your vacuum signal from? The plenum chamber or the intake pipe (pre mixer)?
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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:09 am 
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Just a thought but wasn't wolf offering a duel tune type setup, eg. set it for one and then switch it, eg have a more optimized gas tune, or is this already taken care off somewhat by the standard ecu and gas system.

dino wise you have mixer ring cam timing maybe have been adjusted etc. real world, theres also the extra weight of it all.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:02 pm 
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I have a mate who just had a new mixer ring setup installed on his EF fairmont, with a second hand but in test date tank i gave him, and it hasn't cost him anything as he qualifies for the lpg grant atm. Power is down on petrol & it's got less power on gas than petrol, but at the moment he is more worried about halving is fuel bill.

He has a gas research throttle body already, down the track we will get a b2 converter & modify his current system to run the gas research so we can pickup power on both fuels.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:51 pm 
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EF_fairmont_guy wrote:
also you can be limited buy the Flow potential of the valve in your lpg gas tank.......... i will be installing a BLOS system shortly as it is suppose to be on par with injection even if it's not i know it will be better than a mixer ring as it is 70mm not 35-40mm.....


is that the polish variable one? they also do a "stream mixer" that is supposed to be less restrictive too, very interested in how it goes, anyone thought of twin mixers from a y pipe off throttle body?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:59 pm 
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fairlane6970 wrote:
is that the polish variable one? they also do a "stream mixer" that is supposed to be less restrictive too, very interested in how it goes, anyone thought of twin mixers from a y pipe off throttle body?


You mean like 2 mixer ring setups? I can't say I've seen that done before. I have seen plenty of twin gas research setups, also seen a dual impco 225 setup on a 253v8 & a twin 425 setup on a 355.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Yeah why not, sounds easy enough (to me not that i know anything) as long as you can get enough gas i suppose, y piece from throttle body twin gas rings then back to single or airbox with twin outlets :?: That way you can have two restricted inlets at 35 -40mm = 70-80mm! :D

 

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