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Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG? 

 

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 Post subject: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:40 am 
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Getting my car j3 chipped and dyno tuned at CVE (it's in their workshop now) and have been told for the 100th time, 'never gunna make good power with that gas system'

What are my options? I need LPG as I drive to uni every day and I'm a poor student.

one of those ebay injection kits? (how much would it cost to buy and have them fitted? are they good?)

a gasresearch throttle body?

What if I plan to supercharge or turbo at some stage down the track?

Which is the cheapest way I can remove the restriction and what workshops do people recommend to get that work done?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:49 pm 
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A cheap under bonnet kit (Ebay ect.) will help you on petrol and will be the same or a little better on gas.
I have a cheap kit for mine (to be fitted soon), but I have no plans for boost.
Some of the expensive kits are capable of switching over to petrol when the gas gets to its power limit.
this makes it suitable for boost.
From what I have gathered, injected gas systems have a power limit of around 200kw.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:59 pm 
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What is this cheap under bonnet stuff you guys are on about?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:27 pm 
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it sits in the Intake piping right? whats stopping you oversizing the intake piping to compensate for the amount of room the gas system is currently taking up?

Dunno, not all that familiar with gas, but is this a realistic option? Or am I way off the mark here?
Don't blow me out of the water if its a stupid comment, explain the theory behind it so I will know.
Dave

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:21 pm 
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You are talking about the mixer ring which the opening would be roughly 35mm in diameter, better to go injected a couple of kits on ebay 1 in the Uk supports up to 400hp, haven't tried it yet like to know how hard it's to put in.
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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:03 am 
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Gas research wouldn't be too hard to fit in place of the current gear, remove your TB, swap the mixer ring & converter for gas research gear & maybe change the electronics if required. Gas research would be a better choice for forced induction down the track, but a mixer ring setup has been used in a forced induction setup by a couple of members.

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ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:58 am 
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Would it be possible to use one of the cheaper Ebay LPG Vapour injection kits, and set up an RPM trigger with a relay to switch from LPG to Petrol at high RPM?

If the fuel pump is left on fulltime, there wouldn't be any 'lag' in the switch over, and you could work out a very small overlap of the two fuels if needed etc.

Just a thought.

My IMPCO mixer is a BIG restriction and it really has to go soon.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:38 pm 
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any kind of switch over between fuels is asking for trouble, especially at high RPM/Load.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:54 pm 
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EFFalcon wrote:
any kind of switch over between fuels is asking for trouble, especially at high RPM/Load.


If not done properly yes, it's asking to turn your engine into one large claymore mine. :shock:

But there are kits that Xr6t's have that do something along that line when the LPG system can't flow enough for the power you want to make.

You will probably find the LPG kits are either limited by injector, regulator & converter flow. But if you had 2 of those kits you could probably get 50% more power than just one kit could provide, but you would probably need a custom ecu to run it.

My injection setup is limited by the regulator & injectors to around the 200kw mark according to it's data sheets.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Is the 200kw at the flywheel or the wheels?

The Ebay kit is apparently good for 160rwkw but I have thought about running dual convertors, one to each set of three LPG injectors, and possibly sourcing some larger injectors.

Oh well, might just get the kit for economy purposes, and just use petrol when I want to go for a fun drive.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:22 pm 
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That's a very good question BenJ. I'm nearing the limits of it right now, and i have 130rwkw according to the last dyno i was on with the Ghia, so it's probably 200KW @ flywheel that the manual is talking about. My injectors are getting to 95% duty cycle at 5000rpm, they are 19lb injectors iirc, i could really use the 21's, the largest i can get for my kit that i know will work bolt in & retune, but the couple places that sell them want $150 per injector! I told them they were dreaming.

Your idea of the kit for economy & petrol for when you want fun is a good one, but i'd rather be having fun at 55.9 cpl than 1.30.9 cpl! lol.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:26 pm 
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BenJ wrote:
Is the 200kw at the flywheel or the wheels?

The Ebay kit is apparently good for 160rwkw but I have thought about running dual convertors, one to each set of three LPG injectors, and possibly sourcing some larger injectors.

Oh well, might just get the kit for economy purposes, and just use petrol when I want to go for a fun drive.

Cheers
BenJ


I'm real keen on the Ebay injection setup too. Has any member on any automotive forum in the coutry run this kit. It would be great to get some feedback before I shell out $500 odd of hard earned.
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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:26 pm 
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ToranaGuy wrote:
Your idea of the kit for economy & petrol for when you want fun is a good one, but i'd rather be having fun at 55.9 cpl than 1.30.9 cpl! lol.


I agree with you on that point.

However I find that I put in about $30 of petrol per fortnight for the fun factor. I use 98Ron fuel, and usually only switch to petrol when I want to upset some Commodore Ricer Boy at the traffic lights, so my petrol usage is usually at full throttle LOL.

I also start the wagon every morning on Petrol, and like to keep a bit in the tank for when I run the LPG dry.

$30 per fortnight is cheap fun by the way.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:29 pm 
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xcabbi wrote:
BenJ wrote:
Is the 200kw at the flywheel or the wheels?

The Ebay kit is apparently good for 160rwkw but I have thought about running dual convertors, one to each set of three LPG injectors, and possibly sourcing some larger injectors.

Oh well, might just get the kit for economy purposes, and just use petrol when I want to go for a fun drive.

Cheers
BenJ


I'm real keen on the Ebay injection setup too. Has any member on any automotive forum in the coutry run this kit. It would be great to get some feedback before I shell out $500 odd of hard earned.


Yep, Snap0964 has installed it on his EL Wagon, and is very happy with it. He did the initial mapping etc when he was up here a few months ago. He has reported improved economy and power which is good, but had a few install issues.

The seller was very helpful and is happy to talk on the phone about it all.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: Removing LPG restrictions/forced induction with LPG?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:12 pm 
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If it was me id go gas research for emer gas injection kit as there both proven lpg gear that last.

 

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