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F1 - FIA request BAR exclusion 

 

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 Post subject: F1 - FIA request BAR exclusion
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 12:09 pm 
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The FIA have asked for BAR to be thrown out of the 2005 Formula One World Championship after accusing the team of cheating at the recent San Marino Grand Prix.

At a hearing in Paris on Wednesday, the FIA claimed that BAR had deliberately set out to gain an “illegitimate and unfair advantageâ€￾ over their rivals. They then asked the International Court of appeal to exclude the team and fine them at least one million euros.

The appeal concerns Jenson Button’s third place finish at Imola and the fact that his car was found to underweight once drained of fuel following the race. BAR maintain that the car was legal throughout the event, a claim that the San Marino race stewards agreed with.

The focus of the hearing was a small, secondary fuel tank on Button’s car, which the FIA admitted they were aware of. When this was emptied the car fell under the minimum 600 kilogram weight limit.

However, BAR technical director Geoffrey Willis told the Court that the additional tank was a collector tank which had to hold a minimum of six litres of fuel at all times in order for the car to function.

After the two-and-a-half hour hearing, BAR CEO Nick Fry said he was convinced the team had successfully made their case and that he expected the Court to find in their favour. A decision is expected on Thursday afternoon.

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:25 pm 
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they have been excluded for 2 races. they know the rules so they pay the consequence although it does seem a little steep. i'm guessing they would only have been underweight by few kilos as they argued that with the extra fuel tank (6L) full it was o.k.

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:27 pm 
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6L makes 6 kilo's .. and the rules state the car must qualify for weight when all the fuel tanks are drained. So they would have been 6 kilo's lighter!

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:31 pm 
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Tsk tsk, BAR.... 2 races is a lot of lost exposure for the sponsors and probably cost them a few mil....

Gotta quation FIA's decision on this one tho... FIA were aware of it (altho it doesnt state to what extent) and didnt do anything about it until the end of the race? And the stewards (i.e. expert witnesses) agreed with BAR... sounds like beaurocracy gone mad.

Does he get to keep points that he earned at imola?

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:38 pm 
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no he doesn't. a.wurz gets promoted to podium in his first race. prolly only race as i think montoya back this w/end.

also just being picky but 6L of WATER is 6kg. not sure if fuel is heavier or lighter but would be around the mark.

i think maybe bar are being made examples of.

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Its lighter.... i assume because a lot more H molecules compared to O... comparative to water

In US terminology... gasoline weighs 6lb per gallon or 2.7kg per 3.8L... no idea what kinda fuel runs through the veins of an F1 engine...

 

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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:55 pm 
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Mart ... beaurocracy gone mad descibes the current F1 administration to an absolute T

Prydey - their fuel and water is pretty close to like for like weight wise!

 

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Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:13 am 
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i highly doubt 6l of fuel = 6kg in F1 terms

was reading a article a few months back sayign about how they can chaneg the fuel chemistry ie change the density of the fuel so it is lighter etc

 

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Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:13 pm 
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F1 cars run something like 110 octane rating fuel. Indy/Champ Cares use methanol which runs at roughly the same figures. The F1 burns at a higher temp and wit thier V12 engines is more benefical then using methanol. Its also safer.

BAR have been made an example of, but a precedent must start somewhere, They broke the rules, they pay the consquences. Im sure if results go a certain way then BUtton can kiss goodbye the Championship 2005. (Have both teams been suspenseded or just one car?) Bye bye constructiors championship. Sponsers get hurt, so it will effect them in more then one way.
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:06 pm 
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F1's run 3.5L V10s until next year when they get 2.4L V8s.

Yeah, a little steep punishment wise, fine and loss of points ok, but the exclusion from two races will cost BAR millions in advertising, as well as unduely punish the drivers, as Button has said effectiviely killing his chances in the drivers comp.

edit: Nothing quite like an invisible methanol fire! :shock:

 

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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:36 pm 
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F1 cars run a racing unleaded. You wish that the stuff pumped out of an optimax bowser is the same.
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:57 pm 
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Disco Frank wrote:
i highly doubt 6l of fuel = 6kg in F1 terms

was reading a article a few months back sayign about how they can chaneg the fuel chemistry ie change the density of the fuel so it is lighter etc


Was reading alot of other sources, it appears that 15L of fuel (the size of the BAR collector/extra tank) weighs about 8KG.

 

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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:11 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
the exclusion from two races will cost BAR millions in advertising

especially the monaco race - where they make most of their sponsor money...

 

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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:49 pm 
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That's f**k. BAR get nabbed for a minor rule infringement and Holdung get let off for a major 1. The Monaro 24 hour winner was the biggest motor sport rort ever. Entering a homolagated production car race with a 1 off special. Sorry folks if this is misplaced but I think I have the HSV strand of tapeworm and i have to s**t it out before it kills me.
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:56 pm 
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xcabbi wrote:
That's f**k. BAR get nabbed for a minor rule infringement and Holdung get let off for a major 1. The Monaro 24 hour winner was the biggest motor sport rort ever. Entering a homolagated production car race with a 1 off special. Sorry folks if this is misplaced but I think I have the HSV strand of tapeworm and i have to s**t it out before it kills me.


They were gonna go production, but no-one wanted to pay the $400K. I can understand that, wouldn't pay $40K for a monaro.

 

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