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24lb injectors big enough? 

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:29 am 
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well, ive been thinking also, keeping with the idea of getting a custom tuned chip will limit your injector selection, since you will need to run high impedance (low current) injectors... the problem being most big injectors are low impedance (high current)

most aftermarket management systems will run either

as far as i know the motorsport injectors are low current so would work, you can use any 42's you want, its just the motorsport green top 42's are the most common

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:41 am 
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ebs_4l wrote:
trying to help the lad from having to change his management down the track, after hes invested all his money in a compromising chip tune.

Why do you think a "chip" tune is comprimising? The tuner has full access to the capability of the factory computer.

ebs_4l wrote:
which i would not recommend to anyone trying to run a forced car, and certainly wouldnt recommend it for user friendlyness

Why would you not recommend this for a "forced" car? And does it need to be "user friendly" to anyone but the person tuning it?

ebs_4l wrote:
and how many tuning shops can handle doing that??

Only one that I know of....but how many do you need? There are plenty of blokes that can tune with the CAPA/SCT flash tuner too, but theres only one or two in the country that I would bother getting to tune my car.

ebs_4l wrote:
you said he already had a 1:1 reg? therefore, not needing to buy another 1, how do you suggest he runs 60psi rail pressure with it?? unless ive missed something, the only 1:1 reg i know of him having is the std one, do you suggest he squashes it in a vice or something to crank up 60psi...

Base fuel rail pressure has nothing to do with the ratio the regulator maintains between manifold pressure and fuel rail pressure. He can increase the base fuel rail pressure with an adjustable fuel pressure reg....do some research man.

ebs_4l wrote:
what sort of flow number will the walbro produce at 70psi??


about 200-210lph, depending on the voltage at the pump...again, do your research....this info is not hard to come by.

ebs_4l wrote:
lol, how is that better than my advice??

chill out dude, this is not all about you....its the "worst case" option IMO, and I included it to give some context to the other options. It will work, as 4.9Futura's experience shows, and is a valid option.

ebs_4l wrote:
try finding anyone, anywhere that you can drive in and get a chiptorque eec tune done?? drive into any dyno shop worth there money with any off the shelf management and you wouldnt have a problem

I dont disagree that it is a pain in the a*** that there are only 1 or 2 guys available to custom tune a chiptorque chip...but so what? Fact is they do exist. You make it sound like he will need to take it to any random workshop at any time of the week for a random "dyno tune"....thats just not real life man....relax.

If he lives near the Gold Coast its a very good option, if he doesn't...then it may not be such a good option...depends on how far he is prepared to travel for a good tune.

ebs_4l wrote:
as 36lb'rs re only realistically capable of 240-250kw at the engine

Would you mind sharing how you calculated that figure? You better share that information with Ford...they are running 24lb injectors in 220kw XR8's, 240kw XR6T's, 250kw T3 strokers, and 270kw F6 Typhoons.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:50 am 
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ebs_4l wrote:
well, ive been thinking also, keeping with the idea of getting a custom tuned chip will limit your injector selection, since you will need to run high impedance (low current) injectors... the problem being most big injectors are low impedance (high current)

Thats correct....so he is limited to commonly available injectors up to 60lbs/hr.

Have another read of his first post....he is fitting a powerdyne blower to a mild XR6. It should be a very nice little combo, but it is not going to need anywhere near 60lb/hr injectors.
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:54 am 
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xr8ute wrote:
Why do you think a "chip" tune is comprimising? The tuner has full access to the capability of the factory computer.

well, basically because the ford map sensor is at its very limit of output at 11psi, as to how accurate it is at 11psi, i am unsure, i have also read an article buy lachlan from chiptorque which he said that at about 5-7psi the std ecu is out of injector resolution, and with 24lb+ injectors, it becomes even more difficult, since you are trying to spread the fuel map over a wider area, where is a factory ecu desinged to give optimum tuning ability?? i can tell ya it was never designed for positive pressure

xr8ute wrote:
Why would you not recommend this for a "forced" car? And does it need to be "user friendly" to anyone but the person tuning it?

becuase i would prefer a better tune, with as many load/rpm sites as i needed, and the extremely valuable datalogging capabilities of most a/m management, and with most forced cars, people will use the available outputs from aftermarket management, to run shift light, water sprayer, etc.. you get no auxillary outputs with a chip. I personally, as an owner of a management system, like the fact that i can connect my laptop, run datalogging sessions, have a look through and tune bits and pieces that i feel need changing...

one area that this is extremely valuable also, is in the area of driveablity/cold starting, these areas cannot be tuned precisely on a dyno, and take a good few weeks of fine tuning to get to to where they should be so the car runs seamlessly, nothing more convient than being able to do that yourself, even if you dont want to, aleast you have the option there to do so....

xr8ute wrote:
Only one that I know of....but how many do you need? There are plenty of blokes that can tune with the CAPA/SCT flash tuner too, but theres only one or two in the country that I would bother getting to tune my car.

you only need one, if you wanted to go through the trouble of getting the car there, to receive a tune that has limitations in its abilities

xr8ute wrote:
He can increase the base fuel rail pressure with an adjustable fuel pressure reg....do some research man.

yea, i better look into that, i have no idea what they do

xr8ute wrote:
about 200-210lph, depending on the voltage at the pump...again, do your research....this info is not hard to come by.

ok, fair enough, that pump must be stronger than i thought, although i would like to personally see it flow 3.5l/min at 70psi...

xr8ute wrote:
I dont disagree that it is a pain in the a*** that there are only 1 or 2 guys available to custom tune a chiptorque chip...but so what?

i think that is a user friendlyness item

xr8ute wrote:
Would you mind sharing how you calculated that figure? You better share that information with Ford...they are running 24lb injectors in 220kw XR8's, 240kw XR6T's, 250kw T3 strokers, and 270kw F6 Typhoons.

i bet my nuts ford knows all about the flow capabilities of the injectors they use, more than you and i and the rest of this forum put together..

their engines must pass emissions compliance, have excellent fuel economy, be completely driveable, and be as cheap as possible to build... why on earth would they want to fit bigger injectors than what they absolutley have to???

hence, the 4bar rail pressure of the typhoon you mentioned, those injectors are squeezed as far as id want to squeeze tham

think about it also, the f6 engine is a lot more effiecent than any e-series engine, therefore, is able to produce more HP from a lower quantity of air/fuel mixture

 

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 Post subject: Re: 24lb injectors big enough?
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:41 am 
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EL-XR6 wrote:
Im in the process of putting a powerdyne S/C on my el xr6 ive installed new high flow 24lb injectors and a walbro fuel pump will this be enough for 6-9psi? and will i need a rising rate fuel reg?

Car already has
Surecam
Valve Springs
Ported head
Adjustable gear
Full zorst


yeah 24lb injectors will be fine,, they can handle about 450HP

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:55 am 
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Lol, as much as it pains me to see these lads disagreeing with each other...

What we have here is 2 guys who really know their s**t... and it would probably make for a damn good read for anyone getting into forced induction.

Keep up the good work guys :) Good to see some healthy debate for a change!!

 

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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:41 pm 
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spoke to matt at chiptorque about getting it tuned with the 42lb injectors and he reckons he can do it no probs the car just has to go on the dyno stright away when its finished, then fax the dyno report to him and he'll let me know if its all good, Said that he should get it spot on first tune if not second tune is free.
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Good luck mate, I think you should do very well with that combo. Let us know how it turns out.
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:01 am 
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yer mate will do just trying to get injectors atm will it matter if i get 46lb injectors?
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:41 pm 
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they should be fine

 

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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:49 pm 
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Depends on wht type of injector they are..?

Battens sell the Ford Motorsport (Bosch) injectors, they might have the 42lb "green tops" instock.
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:30 pm 
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yeh the 42lb ford motorsports are to go, or the bosch 968's.

http://www.injectorsonline.com/indivprod.php?c=1

they sell both

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:37 pm 
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yer im gona go the green tops from injectors online still got alot of work before its finished, installed a autometer boost gauge today. Fuel pump, Plumback bov, intake to the front of the car and rerouting the rocker breather hoses will happen some time this week. Also spoke to BPT yesterday about the SCT flash tuner barry reckons it will be $650 for the chip and $300 for a custom tune so looking into gettin this instead of the chiptorque.

 

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:46 pm 
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flash tuner should do a pritty good job better than all the others. pritty cheap to.

u gonna take it to the motorplex and see how she goes once its all tuned?

 

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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:58 pm 
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Dam stright i cant wait to get down there when dose the season start again? Just hope i dont break anything 8-)
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