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BA pistons/rods into E series block 

 

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 Post subject: rod & pistons
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:59 pm 
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i just orderd a set of spool rods and cp pistons for my 4ltr build, will try get some pics up when they come.
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:08 pm 
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What did they cost you mate?
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:22 am 
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were $2090, of ebay.
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 Post subject: Re: BA pistons/rods into E series block
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:42 am 
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turbotrana wrote:
I dropped off my forged BA pistons to my engine machinist to have the valve relief milled out to match a stock E series piston.

He suggested that I first check with the dummy assembly as to whether it actually needs the notches milled as he reckons he has come across a few engines that have notches milled but when they checked found that they could get away with no notch. The valve notch when done is the weak area of the piston.

Has anyone ever checked this. It would entail most of the engine assembled then rotating it with some plasticine in the critical area to see what clearance you get on a full rotation of the engine.


The inlet valve will hit since there is no valve relief notch on the inlet side of the piston


I just milled my block and pistons to zero deck height clearance " meaning pistons are level with the block height. Actual pistons were poking out of the block , have corrected that . Bit of a juggling act in a milling machine with piston and rod still together.

Should see some nice compression ratio , have measure it yet.

The pistons needed inlet and exhaust valve releifs machined using a AU bottom end with a early series cylinder head.

Big custome grind crow camshaft over 600th@280 advertised duration.

 

 

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 Post subject: the obvious Question
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Why has no one asked WHY???
Why not get some after market pistons and rods etc that are correct from the get go.
For the price, labour and risk some one in the "States" must do custom parts to your spec's and take the sweating away on the first crank over.
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 Post subject: Re: the obvious Question
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:06 pm 
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kiwi in oz wrote:
Why has no one asked WHY???
Why not get some after market pistons and rods etc that are correct from the get go.
For the price, labour and risk some one in the "States" must do custom parts to your spec's and take the sweating away on the first crank over.


good point! ...is it not possible to do a mock up with light checking springs to get your P-V clearance
i think youll find that cam duration and valve overlap will be more of a problem than lift ...and how quick the cam ramps up
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 Post subject: Re: the obvious Question
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:32 pm 
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kiwi in oz wrote:
Why has no one asked WHY???
Why not get some after market pistons and rods etc that are correct from the get go.
For the price, labour and risk some one in the "States" must do custom parts to your spec's and take the sweating away on the first crank over.

The OP was talking about aftermarket pistons, its alot cheaper to get aftermarket pistons that are already available for the AU/BA rod, and deal with the consequences of that then is to get custom pistons made up to suit an E-Series rod...

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:39 pm 
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With lower comp pistons there's hardly any notching required...
I got some C.P pistons custom made for 1UZ motor for $1500 I assume a 6 would be cheaper...
Order or ask here Jason Bonney <jason@qri.biz>
Through Quanum racing...

 

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 Post subject: Re: BA pistons/rods into E series block
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:17 pm 
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turbotrana wrote:
I dropped off my forged BA pistons to my engine machinist to have the valve relief milled out to match a stock E series piston.

He suggested that I first check with the dummy assembly as to whether it actually needs the notches milled as he reckons he has come across a few engines that have notches milled but when they checked found that they could get away with no notch. The valve notch when done is the weak area of the piston.

Has anyone ever checked this. It would entail most of the engine assembled then rotating it with some plasticine in the critical area to see what clearance you get on a full rotation of the engine.


If you are using a cam with more than 500 thou lift at the valve, it pays to get the pistons fly cut, at least it gives you the option to go for lift up to say 570 thou, but I believe ther is no gain to be made after say 560 thou lift.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:55 pm 
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Peak lift is not the problem. it's the lift around TDC that determins if you need to cut the pistons.

you could run .600" and still not have to touch the pistons so as the duration is short enough and the LSA wide enough to have very low lifts around TDC.


bottom line is, mock up the engine and check it

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:34 am 
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i mocked up the engine without the head gasket and got 0.2mm clearance with the inlet valve. Now with the a stock 40 thou gasket thats plenty of clearance but with a AU gasket of 0.5mm it gives me a total clerance of 0.7mm (28thou). The question is is this enough ( think it is). I am using a pretty mild cam.

My piston to deck height is zero which also gives only 20thou piston to head clearance which is very tight. Does anyone know what clearances the AU pistons (or even BA pistons) run. I would think that the AU pistons are around 10 to 20thou below the deck to get at least 30thou piston to head clearance.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:09 am 
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you need to bolt the head on with one set of soft springs on one cylinder only, with cam and t/c then slowly spin the engine. Check for clearance thru the whole rototation. We prefer to have a min of 0.080" but I have seen others run 0.060".

With just over 500" lift I am running 095" clearance. Thats with ACL flat tops, 0.005 deck height

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:15 pm 
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turbotrana wrote:
i mocked up the engine without the head gasket and got 0.2mm clearance with the inlet valve. Now with the a stock 40 thou gasket thats plenty of clearance but with a AU gasket of 0.5mm it gives me a total clerance of 0.7mm (28thou). The question is is this enough ( think it is). I am using a pretty mild cam.

My piston to deck height is zero which also gives only 20thou piston to head clearance which is very tight. Does anyone know what clearances the AU pistons (or even BA pistons) run. I would think that the AU pistons are around 10 to 20thou below the deck to get at least 30thou piston to head clearance.



piston to head clearence should be no less then 35thou.

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:57 pm 
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Thanks. The piston manufacturer recomends 30thou and the norm nowadays is 35thou.

My inlet valve pockets have to be made deeper. I reckon a piston to valve for the inlet of 55thou will be OK.

I havent accounted for the fact that the head will have to be faced so either way the pistons need some more machining done to them. Thank god for floating pistons pins.

I am wondering about the guys who are replacing their 1mm normal head gasket with the the commetic steel shim metal head gaskets which are about .5 to .6mm thickness in the E series. They are probably getting a piston to head clearance of 25 thou and dont seem to have clearance problems.

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:24 pm 
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I may be going out on a limb here.... but why not use a full BA motor since there are plenty of smashed up donor cars around?

 

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