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BA pistons/rods into E series block 

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:22 pm 
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I did not go that way for a few reasons.

Registration issues : if I get pulled over with the turbo its easy to get back to stock looking to get the sticker off. If you put the BA motor in they will make sure you have the factory computer connected which is difficult

The E series have a better bottom end torque than the B series. My wife drives a BA and its poor on the bottom end. It is common that 2 valve heads are better on the bottom end than 4 valve heads. If they had a seperate entry for each intake valve this would solve bottom end torque but due to the large bowel area in 4 valve heads its a characteristic of this design.

I can get 650rwhp out of the e series and this is more than enough for the street and the BTR 4speed. Even if I get lined up next to a B series with a 750rwhp mtr the ED body is 300kg lighter.

The B series engine will stick out of the bonnet. Dont want this

I have thought about using the B series motor. Both are good motors but even if I started the project from scratch today I think I would still stick with the E series motor and an ED body.

Thanks for your advice

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:55 pm 
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turbotrana wrote:
Thanks. The piston manufacturer recomends 30thou and the norm nowadays is 35thou.

My inlet valve pockets have to be made deeper. I reckon a piston to valve for the inlet of 55thou will be OK.

I havent accounted for the fact that the head will have to be faced so either way the pistons need some more machining done to them. Thank god for floating pistons pins.




I'd be happier with slightly more PV clearence then 55thou, 70 to 80thou.
but so long as the valve springs are up to the job 55thou will work.
but if one of those springs fails there is less room, that extra just might save the engine

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:20 am 
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From what I have read because the inlet valve follows the piston down when it opens you can get away with alot less clearance, some say 15 thou.

However on the exhaust because the piston chases the valve when it is closing there is the posibility that exhaust could bounse whilst closing and the piston coming up then you need 100thou clearance.

With the inlet closing if it ever bounced whilst closing the piston is at the bottom of the stroke so no possibility of fouling.

I think this makes sense. If you read up on it, these clearances are a much debated subject but its better to be on the safe side than having a junked mtr

But I am still keen to hear of how other people have set their mtrs up

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:05 am 
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Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine

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turbotrana wrote:
From what I have read because the inlet valve follows the piston down when it opens you can get away with alot less clearance, some say 15 thou.

However on the exhaust because the piston chases the valve when it is closing there is the posibility that exhaust could bounse whilst closing and the piston coming up then you need 100thou clearance.

With the inlet closing if it ever bounced whilst closing the piston is at the bottom of the stroke so no possibility of fouling.

I think this makes sense. If you read up on it, these clearances are a much debated subject but its better to be on the safe side than having a junked mtr

But I am still keen to hear of how other people have set their mtrs up


Thats pretty much how it was explained to me.

Inlet valves are not as critical as Exh.

On mine I am running 0.075" on the inlet and 0.095" exhaust with the AU head gasket.

The only way to check it it to dummy the motor with the cam you are going to run plus all the chains and guides, then slowly spin the motor while checking clearance. We did a trial run and motor spun freely, then we started adding feeler gauages between the valve and lifter till we could feel them valve kissing, thus the need to be slow and careful.

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:21 am 
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We use model clay to check..
The B.A pistons are nothing special other than having lower compression.. If you are aiming for 270 / 300 rwkw then std comp is o/k if tuned for it..
But if your building a strong engine?
I'd use aftermarket rods and pistons...
With A.U rod length...

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:48 pm 
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The rods are ARGO and BA forged turbo pistons.

I wonder how the hydraulic lifter is meant to be factored into the equation also as the lifter should bleed down a certain amount but when we do the test with a very light spring there is no load on the lifter and it does not colapse.

Any ideas

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:16 pm 
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Hope Argo are good rods !! They are in my 1UZ....

 

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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:40 pm 
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turbotrana wrote:
The rods are ARGO and BA forged turbo pistons.

I wonder how the hydraulic lifter is meant to be factored into the equation also as the lifter should bleed down a certain amount but when we do the test with a very light spring there is no load on the lifter and it does not colapse.

Any ideas


i would make all the checks with a dummy solid lifter and ZERO lash.

 

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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:04 pm 
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I checked it again with a bit more time on my hands today. I had about 5min to check it first time around.


Anyway good news. With the cam, lifters and spacers in along with the weak spring, it was lifting the valve off the seat right thruout the rotation so all measurements were null and void.

I measured it correctly this time around and there will be 72 thou clearance on the inlet. I got the piston flycut cut to the AU piston size which is alot smaller than the E series size and it looks like it worked out fine clearance wise.

I had the deck of the block faced a minimal amount. The forged BA turbo pistons actually sits absolutely flush with the deck when you factor out piston rock.

Now I measured the AU cometic steel shim gasket again and I reckon it will compress to about a 30thou (0.75mm) thickness. The piston manufacturer recomends 30 thou (.075mm) clearance.

So the questions are what is the compressed thickness of the AU head gasket and have any guys who have put a AU head gasket into a E series motor ever had the piston kissing the head because I reckon they will have less than 30thou squish clearance.

I think I will have to start another topic on this very subject.

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:04 am 
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If they say they are .030 gaskets... Thats what they will be when compressed to specs...

 

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Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:06 am 
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does it say that somewhere (that they are 30thou gaskets)

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:06 am 
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I had an old AU gasket kicking around so I measured it and got 0.020" thickness.

I would not be too concerned with the inlet as the inlet chases the piston down the bore. The exhaust chases the piston up the bore and is more likely to kiss than inlet.

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:46 am 
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the ones ive measured were exactly .022"

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:43 pm 
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I've measured between 25 and 30 thou with the digital verniers depending how hard I push and where I measure, There is a little tang with a rivet on the side of the gasket and that measures 25thou for me.

I have had a big look on the forums and I really dont see anyone having any problems with AU gaskets on E series engines. So it seems that sub 30thou squish can be done with these engines. Even JMM regularly recomends and uses them.

Do people agree that the average stock non reconditioned E series has the piston sticking proud of the deck just a few thou, say 2 to 5 thou. This is what I measured. THerefore I should be OK as my pistons are flush with the deck.

Nevertheless I would still like to find out whats the piston to deck clearance is on AU and BA engines.

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:48 pm 
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on my engine, EL hybrid block with AU crank rods and pistons I originally had 0.013" piston to block clearance

 

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