Fordmods Logo

BA pistons/rods into E series block 

 

Page 3 of 4 [ 51 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

 
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:22 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I did not go that way for a few reasons.

Registration issues : if I get pulled over with the turbo its easy to get back to stock looking to get the sticker off. If you put the BA motor in they will make sure you have the factory computer connected which is difficult

The E series have a better bottom end torque than the B series. My wife drives a BA and its poor on the bottom end. It is common that 2 valve heads are better on the bottom end than 4 valve heads. If they had a seperate entry for each intake valve this would solve bottom end torque but due to the large bowel area in 4 valve heads its a characteristic of this design.

I can get 650rwhp out of the e series and this is more than enough for the street and the BTR 4speed. Even if I get lined up next to a B series with a 750rwhp mtr the ED body is 300kg lighter.

The B series engine will stick out of the bonnet. Dont want this

I have thought about using the B series motor. Both are good motors but even if I started the project from scratch today I think I would still stick with the E series motor and an ED body.

Thanks for your advice

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

turbotrana wrote:
Thanks. The piston manufacturer recomends 30thou and the norm nowadays is 35thou.

My inlet valve pockets have to be made deeper. I reckon a piston to valve for the inlet of 55thou will be OK.

I havent accounted for the fact that the head will have to be faced so either way the pistons need some more machining done to them. Thank god for floating pistons pins.




I'd be happier with slightly more PV clearence then 55thou, 70 to 80thou.
but so long as the valve springs are up to the job 55thou will work.
but if one of those springs fails there is less room, that extra just might save the engine
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:20 am 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

From what I have read because the inlet valve follows the piston down when it opens you can get away with alot less clearance, some say 15 thou.

However on the exhaust because the piston chases the valve when it is closing there is the posibility that exhaust could bounse whilst closing and the piston coming up then you need 100thou clearance.

With the inlet closing if it ever bounced whilst closing the piston is at the bottom of the stroke so no possibility of fouling.

I think this makes sense. If you read up on it, these clearances are a much debated subject but its better to be on the safe side than having a junked mtr

But I am still keen to hear of how other people have set their mtrs up

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:05 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 55

Posts: 451

Joined: 3rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

turbotrana wrote:
From what I have read because the inlet valve follows the piston down when it opens you can get away with alot less clearance, some say 15 thou.

However on the exhaust because the piston chases the valve when it is closing there is the posibility that exhaust could bounse whilst closing and the piston coming up then you need 100thou clearance.

With the inlet closing if it ever bounced whilst closing the piston is at the bottom of the stroke so no possibility of fouling.

I think this makes sense. If you read up on it, these clearances are a much debated subject but its better to be on the safe side than having a junked mtr

But I am still keen to hear of how other people have set their mtrs up


Thats pretty much how it was explained to me.

Inlet valves are not as critical as Exh.

On mine I am running 0.075" on the inlet and 0.095" exhaust with the AU head gasket.

The only way to check it it to dummy the motor with the cam you are going to run plus all the chains and guides, then slowly spin the motor while checking clearance. We did a trial run and motor spun freely, then we started adding feeler gauages between the valve and lifter till we could feel them valve kissing, thus the need to be slow and careful.

 

_________________

RIP :( 1x confused Falcon..EL Falcon with full AU running gear...VCT, 5 speed, IRS, AUII front suspension, brakes, and steering RIP

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 70

Posts: 3555

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

We use model clay to check..
The B.A pistons are nothing special other than having lower compression.. If you are aiming for 270 / 300 rwkw then std comp is o/k if tuned for it..
But if your building a strong engine?
I'd use aftermarket rods and pistons...
With A.U rod length...

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:48 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

The rods are ARGO and BA forged turbo pistons.

I wonder how the hydraulic lifter is meant to be factored into the equation also as the lifter should bleed down a certain amount but when we do the test with a very light spring there is no load on the lifter and it does not colapse.

Any ideas

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 70

Posts: 3555

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

Hope Argo are good rods !! They are in my 1UZ....

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

turbotrana wrote:
The rods are ARGO and BA forged turbo pistons.

I wonder how the hydraulic lifter is meant to be factored into the equation also as the lifter should bleed down a certain amount but when we do the test with a very light spring there is no load on the lifter and it does not colapse.

Any ideas


i would make all the checks with a dummy solid lifter and ZERO lash.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:04 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I checked it again with a bit more time on my hands today. I had about 5min to check it first time around.


Anyway good news. With the cam, lifters and spacers in along with the weak spring, it was lifting the valve off the seat right thruout the rotation so all measurements were null and void.

I measured it correctly this time around and there will be 72 thou clearance on the inlet. I got the piston flycut cut to the AU piston size which is alot smaller than the E series size and it looks like it worked out fine clearance wise.

I had the deck of the block faced a minimal amount. The forged BA turbo pistons actually sits absolutely flush with the deck when you factor out piston rock.

Now I measured the AU cometic steel shim gasket again and I reckon it will compress to about a 30thou (0.75mm) thickness. The piston manufacturer recomends 30 thou (.075mm) clearance.

So the questions are what is the compressed thickness of the AU head gasket and have any guys who have put a AU head gasket into a E series motor ever had the piston kissing the head because I reckon they will have less than 30thou squish clearance.

I think I will have to start another topic on this very subject.

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:04 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 70

Posts: 3555

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

If they say they are .030 gaskets... Thats what they will be when compressed to specs...

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:06 am 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

does it say that somewhere (that they are 30thou gaskets)

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:06 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 55

Posts: 451

Joined: 3rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

I had an old AU gasket kicking around so I measured it and got 0.020" thickness.

I would not be too concerned with the inlet as the inlet chases the piston down the bore. The exhaust chases the piston up the bore and is more likely to kiss than inlet.

 

_________________

RIP :( 1x confused Falcon..EL Falcon with full AU running gear...VCT, 5 speed, IRS, AUII front suspension, brakes, and steering RIP

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:46 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 39

Posts: 868

Joined: 23rd Sep 2005

Ride: eb falcon

Location: kadina
SA, Australia

the ones ive measured were exactly .022"

 

_________________

EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:43 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline

Posts: 264

Joined: 19th Sep 2005

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

I've measured between 25 and 30 thou with the digital verniers depending how hard I push and where I measure, There is a little tang with a rivet on the side of the gasket and that measures 25thou for me.

I have had a big look on the forums and I really dont see anyone having any problems with AU gaskets on E series engines. So it seems that sub 30thou squish can be done with these engines. Even JMM regularly recomends and uses them.

Do people agree that the average stock non reconditioned E series has the piston sticking proud of the deck just a few thou, say 2 to 5 thou. This is what I measured. THerefore I should be OK as my pistons are flush with the deck.

Nevertheless I would still like to find out whats the piston to deck clearance is on AU and BA engines.

 

_________________

Turbo 6s rule

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 55

Posts: 451

Joined: 3rd Jan 2005

Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

on my engine, EL hybrid block with AU crank rods and pistons I originally had 0.013" piston to block clearance

 

_________________

RIP :( 1x confused Falcon..EL Falcon with full AU running gear...VCT, 5 speed, IRS, AUII front suspension, brakes, and steering RIP

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 3 of 4  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:40 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names