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BF F6 Short Motor 

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:31 am 
Oompa Loompa
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a standard BA XR6T bottom end will take 350rwkw no problems with a good tune. a leanout would not have cause the rod to bend, you have another problem there mate
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:19 am 
Oompa Loompa
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axeman83 wrote:
a standard BA XR6T bottom end will take 350rwkw no problems with a good tune. a leanout would not have cause the rod to bend, you have another problem there mate


I dunno what ever it was, it backfired and bent the rod.
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:31 am 
Getting Side Ways
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axeman83 wrote:
a leanout would not have cause the rod to bend, you have another problem there mate

A Ford engineer posted this on fordforums in December 2005:
Quote:
Just to clarify the bending conrods on aftermarket BA gas issue. During development of the BA E-gas Falcon, two cars suffered from bent con-rods. We were a bit mystified about why. After a fair bit of investigation and head scratching we found the issue was caused by intake backfiring. Early prototype PCMs had an issue that gave an intermittent spark problem (long since fixed), that gave backfire issues on the early prototype E-gas BAs. Our investigation found that a backfire causes a pressure wave in the intake manifold that supercharges the next intake event, it also ignites that cylinder at about 90° BTDC. When the cylinder then tries to compress this, the in-cylinder pressures can rise higher than the buckling limit of the con-rod, causing it to bend. Even when we tried the petrol engine compression ratio we still bent con-rods. We went through quite a few engines working this out.

Why do AU and earlier engines not bend conrods? (I hear you ask)
Well we tested that too and they do exactly the same thing as the Barra engine however because of the 2 valve head configuration, they just don't get the cylinder pressure high enough, we did several hundred backfires and the pressure got to just below the buckling limit but never over.

So new stronger conrods were developed for the E-gas engine while the petrol engine kept the standard ones. Therefore if you fit an aftermarket gas system to a BA petrol Falcon, and it has a backfire for any reason, you may bend a con-rod and destroy your engine (we did). Of course not all backfires will bend a con-rod.


So it is possible (albeit remotely) that a leanout backfire could have caused his rod to bend due to the pressure wave effect.

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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ok i stand corrected, very interesting stuff there
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:05 am 
Getting Side Ways
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TROYMAN wrote:
gee the ba rods cant be that week to bend at 227rwks and 11.5 psi??
unless there are other factors?...
afaik au rods are similar or to an extent the same, i was at 265rwkw @12psi and am now pushing 14 psi into it and no probs...


227rwks @ 11.5 psi is a poor tune, you can get that power out of a BA on 6psi....

after you get your motor rebuilt, id be looking at a new tuner, unless you ran the generic cappa 10psi tune and it went bang???? or used a manual boost controller? how did you boost it?

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:01 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: BA XR6T, 01 DRZ400E, 08 YZ250

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it was running a generic "10psi" capa tune, i dont know why it was boosting higher it just was. i dont know if capa did a "hack job" because of the problems i had with them (numerous phone calls and took 8 weeks to get my flash tuner back).
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:15 am 
Getting Side Ways
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fordy4eva wrote:
it was running a generic "10psi" capa tune, i dont know why it was boosting higher it just was. i dont know if capa did a "hack job" because of the problems i had with them (numerous phone calls and took 8 weeks to get my flash tuner back).


sorry, but thats why it went bang....
every car is different, 'one tune fits all' just isnt true...

i had the cappa 10psi tune in mine for 2 minutes, quickly flashed it back as it pinged its head off!

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:29 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: BA XR6T, 01 DRZ400E, 08 YZ250

Location: Hoppers Crossing
VIC, Australia

So you ended up getting a custom flash tune then?
Im trying to find someone around Melbourne, preferably western suburbs and to be reasonably priced. I went to a place and they quoted me 1000 bucks i nearly had a bloody heart attack.
I presume the custom flash tune cheaper?
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:14 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 162 rwkw

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NSW, Australia

thats what a decent tune is worth mate, much cheaper than another new motor....

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:41 am 
Getting Side Ways
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just read this randomly lol.
BA-BF before june 06 NA and turbo have the same rods with full floating gudgeon pin. E-gas motors use a stronger conrod (ie. F6 style) with press fit gudgeon pin.
the weaker style conrod is the same as used in AU engines excepted for the floating gudgeon pin.

BF june 06 - FG, NA engines retain the older style conrods still with full floating gudgeon pin. Turbo and E-gas use the same style and strength rod (again, F6 style) but still retain the pin style specific to the engine (ie. Gas - press fit, Turbo - full floating).

All pistons used are the same strength and basic make up; the differences being press fit pin and very high compression for E-gas engines, full floating gudgeon pin and normal compression for NA engines and full floating gudgeon pin with 8:7.1 comp for the turbo pistons.

these can all be used in an AU block with an AU crank for some very cheap combos if you are smart about it.
would be fantastic to use some E-gas pistons and rods in a high comp huge cam NA engine, or a high comp mild power turbo setup with the NA pistons, while the Turbo pistons are good for 400-420rwkw.
the pistons do need to be checked for clearance and flycut for the intake valve if required though.

the stronger rods are all good for around or even above 450rwkw.
:)

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:02 am 
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Good info in this thread :D Bookmarked.
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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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You can use the AU / B series length rods in earlier E series engines..
IF you use the AU piston ...The pin is slightly smaller on floating pin engines..

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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by floating pin does this mean that it has bearings suronding the gudgeon pin? or is it something diffrent to that?

 

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 Post subject: Re: BF F6 Short Motor
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:51 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Yep the rod has a bearing on it.. The pin is pushed in with C clips / 2 Spiro clips each end
to hold them in.Why they are called Full Floating pins...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudgeon_pin
They explain way better than myself..

I would be looking at "larger injectors" and fuel supply as Ford used higher fuel pressure
esp on early turbo engines to raise AFR...
So any performance tuning can be limited with safety...

 

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As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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